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Author Topic: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel  (Read 5164 times)

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Offline dmvol

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CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« on: June 30, 2025, 05:01:55 AM »
Hi
I bought CA14 omnis and while recordings sound is really amazing (when it's not too loud), I see big difference between left and right channel - left channel is really louder. Initially I thought it was maybe because of recorder and how it process it (Zoom H1e), but I tried it also in PC and get the same result. Here is silent recording (with pc fans in background) amplified +30db in Audacity.
So, problems are that I have to manually boost right channel (and it does not work as good because of different peaks), and bigger problem is that left channel clipping very easy: second screenshot with real record of not so loud actually show with sound amplified -25db (attenuated?) while right channel is so far from limits, left channel brickwalled in lower part.

So, what could I possibly do? I'm planning to upgrade to Zoom F3 but I doubt it will really help, especially with much louder shows. With Zoom H1e I don't have levels, and 32 bit should be enough - so even if F3 has better more to overload, it still doesn't look I could record everything without attenuator (and I don't know if left mic clipped or it was recorder).

Offline dmvol

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Offline bmubart

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2025, 07:21:27 AM »
Same here: two CA14C and one CA14O: all with a difference in recording level left or right (left is recorded lower).  While taping hot the right green indicator lights while the left does this less or none.
Tried with Sony D100, M10 and Zoom F3
I do the balancing in post production with Ozone with good result.
Great micros though.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2025, 01:17:07 PM »
questions for each of you:
1] Have you tried swapping channels with the mics?
2] Second poster says yes, but first poster, did you try going into different decks?
3] Are you sure it isn't the pre-amps on your decks?

Given all of that you should and hopefully are aware that microphone such as CHurhc's are not sensitivity matched in the first place. Mic capsules are susceptible to damage via environmental conditions, such as extreme heat/cold or high humidity/excess moisture.
I wouldn't expect them to be "matched" but if they are more than 3 - 6 DB different you should think they may be damaged
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When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Offline neutrino

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2025, 10:32:42 PM »
Did you buy the CA14's new or used? Do you know how old they are and have they always had a difference in channels??
CA14/OM14 > A10
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Offline bmubart

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2025, 08:07:22 AM »
Did you buy the CA14's new or used? Do you know how old they are and have they always had a difference in channels??

New ones.  Three of them and I'm not very sure they had it from the beginning... No problem over here because I correct it in post production with Ozone

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2025, 11:59:56 AM »
There is often some variation in sensitivity and output level between low voltage mics.  If its only a difference in level, it can usually be pretty easily corrected.  If its a significant difference in frequency response, or both frequency response and level, one of the mics may not be working correctly.

If they vary only in level, correct it by using more gain on the quieter channel.  If your recorder or preamp has individual gain controls for each channel, most of that correction can be done before the signal gets recorded. If not, do so afterward.  Either way, its always best to listen for and adjust balance as needed afterward anyway, even if using a well matched pair of mics.

Correcting for a difference in frequency response is also possible, but trickier.  If that's needed it may be best to change mics.  Correcting either can increase noise-floor somewhat, but hopefully that won't matter.

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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2025, 12:24:50 PM »
"After the fact" microphone pair matching-

To check the match between the two microphones you can place the two mics immediately adjacent to each other facing the same direction and record something.  The aim is to get identical sound into both channels. A mono result from the two essentially.  Pink noise is a good thing to record to check this. Static from a radio can substitute. 

To match the two outputs as closely as possible, import the resulting files into your editor.  Invert polarity of one channel and sum the two to mono.  By inverting the polarity of one channel you set them up to cancel-out each other.  If level and response were absolutely perfectly matched the summed result would be silence, but it never will be that perfect.  Adjust gain of one channel verses the other with the goal of making the levels of the two channels as similar as possible.  The closer in level they get, the lower the level of the summed output will become.  Carefully adjust gain to achieve the lowest summed output level possible.  Note the amount of gain used.  That's what you'll need to apply each time to bring the signals from the two mics into close level match. But even if doing that, I'd still make any final balance adjustment to each recording by ear as needed. 

Taking that matching one step farther-
If there is a significant frequency response mismatch, you can also play with EQ'ing the channel that's more problematic to more closely match the other.  You can use the same inverted polarity trick used to do the gain matching adjustment, only this time adjusting EQ on the "less good" channel so as to match the other channel.  Like before, the goal is to adjust things until you achieve the maximum cancellation possible (quietest summed output). Alternately, you might use an EQ with a matching EQ routine that automatically adjusts the EQ of one source to match that of the other.  Once you've done that, save or otherwise record the EQ and level settings so you can reapply them each time you start editing recordings made using that particular pair of mics.


Microphone matching actually involves getting three things as identical as possible: Output level, frequency response, and phase.  Making adjustments to match phase closely is possible but beyond the scope of this post.  But if doing the EQ matching thing, you can try switching between minimum phase and linear phase EQ modes to determine if you can achieve more cancellation with one or the other. Minimum phase EQ will affect phase as well as level. Linear phase EQ will only change level in the affected region.  That's getting pretty involved with it, but once done the results can be applied to any recording made using that pair of mics (as used in a typical stereo mic pair configuration of course)

If all this sounds like Greek to you (assuming you don't speak Greek), or is simply to much to bother with, just adjust levels to match by ear afterward.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline mrfender

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2025, 01:56:04 PM »
I just tried the reverse polarity in Audacity using the Inverse effect but it didn't seem to do anything, might not have had the speaker volume high enough or something as I had to max out the gain (CA14 > CA9100 > A10).  Anyway, I ran both my CA14 cards and omnis and just looking at the wave forms in Audacity, they are fairly close.  Not exact by any means (could be due to positioning) but close enough that the difference is essentially immaterial.
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Offline HarW182 (clover182 old handle)

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2025, 03:37:54 PM »
My SP-CMC-2As run slightly different on each side, but not really noticeable - they are also from 2004 (not sure if that determines things). My left mic is a bit quieter, not sure if that is just an issue with my R-05 though - would have to check. I equalize the sound levels in each side which seems to rectify everything.
Microphones: Sony ECM-929LT / Sony ECM-719 / AT9400 / [b\] SP-CMC-2A + SP-SPSB-6 (both from 2004) [b/]

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: CA14 different sound level in left and right channel
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2025, 04:31:28 PM »
I equalize the sound levels in each side which seems to rectify everything.
^
That's usually the answer. The details are all about how you get there and how exacting you want to be about it.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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