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Author Topic: How to handle that festival sound?  (Read 566 times)

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Offline bmubart

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How to handle that festival sound?
« on: July 28, 2025, 08:46:42 AM »
Hi,

I recorded some festival shows with good result but wondered if there's a way to reduce the typical 'open' (more hollow) sound. I tried Izotope RX Spectral Denoise with (sometimes) better result but maybe there are better options?
Or is it a microphone thing?  Some recordings are made with cardiods, other omni's (Church Audio), both giving that open sound.  I record mostly standing near FOH.

Offline grawk

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Re: How to handle that festival sound?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2025, 09:14:32 AM »
Watch it in a spectral analyzer, and boost the (likely middle) frequencies that are lower than the others.  Parametric EQ works better for this than spot.

Ozone has a setting that works really well for this, too.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How to handle that festival sound?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2025, 04:50:23 PM »
I'm not quite sure how to interpret your verbal description of the sound, but agreed with grawk that it's probably best corrected with EQ.

In addition to what grawk suggests for determining the problem visually, you should also try doing so by ear-
Using a parametric EQ, set a bell filter, aka bandpass / peak-filter, with relatively moderate low Q factor (say around 1 or so) to some relatively large amount of boost and and sweep the center frequency of that filter up and down while listening to determine where the frequency center of the problem lies.  Tweak the frequency control of the filter until you home in on the problem region, making the problem either maximally aggravated or over corrected.  Then leave the frequency setting there and play around with the gain of the filter.  You might end up either boosting or cutting, but by some lesser amount.  Further tweak gain, the filter's Q (the width of the region being effected), and the corner frequency of the filter while listening in search of the best sounding result.  Compare with the filter switched in and out to make sure its doing what you want.  Go back try a little less gain to see if that works just as well or maybe better.  Take a break and come back to listen again later with fresh ears before committing to it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2025, 04:52:01 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: How to handle that festival sound?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2025, 02:36:48 PM »
Also, switch from Omnis to Cards; or from Cards to Super Cards, like a MK41
Regards,
Scooter123

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How to handle that festival sound?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2025, 04:36:08 PM »
I recorded some festival shows with good result but wondered if there's a way to reduce the typical 'open' (more hollow) sound.
I'm not quite sure how to interpret your verbal description of the sound, but agreed with grawk that it's probably best corrected with EQ.
Also, switch from Omnis to Cards; or from Cards to Super Cards, like a MK41

Without a more detailed specification of the problem, this is highly likely to turn into a wild goose chase of responses.

The immediate problem I see is that when used to describe sound, the terms "open" and "hollow" tend to be contradictory rather than analogous. The "hollow" sound might be inherent to the venue, the sound mixing, or could be a "microphone thing" or be related to how the microphones are setup.

When describing the sound of recordings,"openess" is often a positive attribute associated with large spaces such as outdoor venues and large music halls, and is similarly associated with the use of microphone pickup patterns that are less directional and thus more sensitive to sound arriving from all directions.  Those two different uses go hand-in-hand because open outdoor spaces and large halls with good good acoustics allow for the use of more open polar patterns which tend to sound more natural, 3-dimensional, and more "open", with a wider frequency response that extends down to lower frequencies - all good things when the situation allows for it.

In contrast, terms such as "hollow", "pinched', "closed-in", tend to be associated with smaller acoustic spaces and the use of more-directional microphone patterns that are less than top-quality.

Consider the entire spectrum of microphone polar patterns ranging from least to most directional, simplified as follows: omni, sub-cardioid, cardioid, super or hyper-cardioid, shotgun-mic.  The less directional omni end of that spectrum is more "open" to sounds arriving from all directions and tends to sound more "natural" partly because of that.  Good acoustic situations allow for the use of more open patterns without negative consequences, so many recordists who have the opportunity to use whichever polar pattern they like will go with a more open pattern when the recording situation allows for it.  That said, the way the mics are setup can also contribute to a "less open", "hollow", "closed-in" sound.

Moving away from the more open polar patterns (omnidirectional, sub or wide-cardioid) toward the more directional end of the spectrum, the pickup pattern becomes more and more strongly biased toward sound arriving from a particular direction. Actually, to be accurate, the pickup pattern doesn't actually become more biased toward sound from a particular direction, but rather becomes less sensitive to sound arriving from other off-axis directions.  That directional bias can be very useful when the sound arriving from all other directions is more problematic than helpful, such as in smaller spaces with less than great acoustics, or when there is too much distracting audience noise off to the sides and rear.  Even though that trade-off tends to lead to a sound that is "flatter", more "closed in", less "open" and "dimensionally deep", its a good one overall.  The end result may be somewhat compromised compared to the ideal situation, but makes for the best solution available given the situation.
 
Also contributing to this is a general attribute of lower cost microphones - its easier to manufacture good sounding low directivity microphones such as omnis than it is to manufacture good sounding highly directional microphones such as supercardioids and shotgun-mics.  The Schoeps MK41 Scooter mentions is a top-tier microphone which doesn't suffer sounding "pinched" or "hollow" like some cheaper supercards do.  Schoeps makes great sounding mics of all patterns, and that top-quality is reflected in the price of the microphones.  Yet, the MK41 supercard will still tend to sound less open, less dimensional, and less deep than a more open pattern Schoeps capsule such as a MK4 cardioid, MK22 open-cardioid, MK-21 sub-cardioid or MK2 omni used in the same situation.  All those patterns are optimized for somewhat different uses, and because they behave better than some other lower-quality makes, good recordings can often be made even when using a pattern that is less than ideal for the particular situation.

If you are noticing the same "hollow" sound in both cardioids and omnis, that may be an indication that it has more to do with the sound at that particular or soundman doing the mixing rather than the microphones themselves.  See if you can correct it with EQ as mentioned previously.  The correction curve you end up using can be very informative, particularly if you find something similar is helpful most of the time rather than just in the case of these particular recordings.

Lots of word, hope it helps.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline rumbleseat

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Re: How to handle that festival sound?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2025, 07:19:24 PM »
The best way for us to help is for you to post a 5 or 10 minute sample of your most "hollow" sounding concert.  Then, I and maybe others will take a stab at making it sound "better" using EQ and whatever other tricks we can apply.
You can get a sneak preview of my suggestions in this post:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=207587.msg2429087;topicseen#msg2429087
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