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Author Topic: Deity PR-4 Recorder  (Read 163,770 times)

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Offline jbell

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #135 on: July 11, 2026, 02:48:31 PM »
Quote from: darby on July 11, 2026, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: jbell on July 11, 2026, 10:25:22 AMWould love to hear how the preamps sound!
only $449  ;)
Not ready to commit!
4 Channels
Neumann kk 184's, kk 185's > Nbob KCY > Naiant PFA | Schoeps mk41's > KCY 250/ 05 Ig > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices Mixpre 10 II @32/48

2 Channels
Schoeps mk41's > KCY 250/ 05 Ig > Riotbox > Sony PCM A10 @ 24/48

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2026, 08:30:07 PM »
Quote from: jbell on July 11, 2026, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: darby on July 11, 2026, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: jbell on July 11, 2026, 10:25:22 AMWould love to hear how the preamps sound!
only $449  ;)
Not ready to commit!

Jon...moe.down is next week.  I'll give it a good workout and post some recordings when I get back.


Quote from: darby on July 10, 2026, 07:18:40 PMso far I have NOT found a way to disable L/R Mix channel

for doing only 2 channels Digital In...


Semi good news Darby...it turns out that you can disable any track you want to from the app.  The apps mixer screen shows all of the tracks in a red box to the left of the sliders.  If you tap the red box, it changes so that it's not red anymore.  The only tracks that have the red box lit are recorded to the poly wave file.  The display on the unit will then also change the channels that are disabled so that they are no longer highlighted in red.   

Why this can't be done from the menu is a mystery.  Hopefully that's another firmware update item for them to consider, but at least we're not stuck recording all six tracks to the poly wave.

Interesting note that the poly wave file is not limited in size.  In other words, if you record for say six hours like I did when I was doing a run time test, the recording is one huge 6 hour poly wave file.  It's not broken up into 2gb or 4gb increments, like every other recorder I've ever owned.
Mic Capsules:  Schoeps MK4 x 2, MK41 x 2, MK4S x 2, MK3 x 2, MK21 x 2, MK8 x 1, M934b x 5, M241 x 4, Nakamichi CP-701 x 2, CP-702 x 2
Mic Bodies: Schoeps m222 tubes, Schoeps CMC-4 (modified for 48v phantom), Schoeps CMMT-30 x 5, Nakamichi CM-700 x 2
Active Cable Systems:  Schoeps KCY, Schoeps Modded KC5, Schoeps nbob and extensions
Recorders: SD788t x 2, Zoom F6, SD MixPre-3i, Deity PR-2, Zoom F3, Marantz PMD-661, Tascam DR-100i, Marantz PMD-620, Korg MR-1
Preamps:  Sonosax SX-M2D2, Schoeps VMS-5U, Schoeps VMS-52UB x 2, Schoeps VMS-42UB, Schoeps VMS-02IB, Riotbox, Cooper CSPA-1
Misc: Benchmark Sonic AD2K+, Rycote Softie Screens, Movo Screens, Rycote INV mounts

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2026, 08:50:01 PM »
Quote from: adrianf74 on July 09, 2026, 03:30:34 PMWhat I am interested in is the "handoff" between the ADCs.  I saw a video where someone showed some asymetrical wave files when the handoff between the two is involved.  You able to check this? 

Yep...no glitches for me during the battery run time test.

As reported earlier, I ran two battery tests.  The first one had the automix function on and MAN is that ever funky.  Totally useless for anything that we do, that's for sure.  The waveform was VERY wonky with it engaged.  The second run-time test had automix off.

As previously mentioned, I think in that video there's a really good chance that he was seeing the automix handing off between the channels.  Automix causes one channel to kick in and simultaneously mutes the other channel.  Then when a louder sound occurs in the other channel, it'll instantaneously peak out and the other channel is muted.  Since I was recording background noise at home, both channels had about the same sound pressure hitting them, but even so, the level would peak out on the left channel and the right would go down to zero, and the next moment the right channel would peak and the left channel would drop to zero. 

Anyway, the second test I did had the automix feature disabled.  I checked out the waveform this morning and didn't notice anything unusual from zooming in on the waveform.  I did a spot check in a number of locations along the timeline of the recording, though with the file being almost 7 hours long, I didn't zoom in on 7 hours worth of waveform.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2026, 08:53:37 PM by fanofjam »
Mic Capsules:  Schoeps MK4 x 2, MK41 x 2, MK4S x 2, MK3 x 2, MK21 x 2, MK8 x 1, M934b x 5, M241 x 4, Nakamichi CP-701 x 2, CP-702 x 2
Mic Bodies: Schoeps m222 tubes, Schoeps CMC-4 (modified for 48v phantom), Schoeps CMMT-30 x 5, Nakamichi CM-700 x 2
Active Cable Systems:  Schoeps KCY, Schoeps Modded KC5, Schoeps nbob and extensions
Recorders: SD788t x 2, Zoom F6, SD MixPre-3i, Deity PR-2, Zoom F3, Marantz PMD-661, Tascam DR-100i, Marantz PMD-620, Korg MR-1
Preamps:  Sonosax SX-M2D2, Schoeps VMS-5U, Schoeps VMS-52UB x 2, Schoeps VMS-42UB, Schoeps VMS-02IB, Riotbox, Cooper CSPA-1
Misc: Benchmark Sonic AD2K+, Rycote Softie Screens, Movo Screens, Rycote INV mounts

Offline kindms

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #138 on: Yesterday at 11:36:19 AM »
Quote from: noahbickart on July 10, 2026, 08:41:57 AMcan anyone confirm that, while using the aes inputs, the recorder writes 4 channels of bit perfect 24/96 PCM data?
Teddy said PR-4 gain is engaged during recording. so not bit perfect

he runs it at 0 on the deck
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
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Offline grawk

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #139 on: Yesterday at 02:52:07 PM »
Quote from: kindms on Yesterday at 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: noahbickart on July 10, 2026, 08:41:57 AMcan anyone confirm that, while using the aes inputs, the recorder writes 4 channels of bit perfect 24/96 PCM data?
Teddy said PR-4 gain is engaged during recording. so not bit perfect

he runs it at 0 on the deck
That doesn't mean it isn't bit perfect. With 32bit containers gain is just a number recorded in the file. 
Schoeps DMS (ccm4v/cmc18l) - CMC141vl - DPA 4015gs - DPA 2006c - Nohype SRM-1 - Sennheiser 416T - Neumann KK14
Sonosax AD8+/R4+/M2D2 - Lectrosonics SPDR - Tascam FR-AV2 - Deity PR2 - DPA MMA:A

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #140 on: Yesterday at 03:29:09 PM »
Quote from: grawk on Yesterday at 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: kindms on Yesterday at 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: noahbickart on July 10, 2026, 08:41:57 AMcan anyone confirm that, while using the aes inputs, the recorder writes 4 channels of bit perfect 24/96 PCM data?
Teddy said PR-4 gain is engaged during recording. so not bit perfect

he runs it at 0 on the deck
That doesn't mean it isn't bit perfect. With 32bit containers gain is just a number recorded in the file.
Testing this is simple:

take a 24/96 .wav file> aes output> record to diety> flip polarity of either the original or the new diety file> load both files into DAW w/  -3db gain> Play.

If there is complete silence, the files are the same.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:31:28 PM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline adrianf74

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #141 on: Yesterday at 08:08:59 PM »
Quote from: fanofjam on July 11, 2026, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: adrianf74 on July 09, 2026, 03:30:34 PMWhat I am interested in is the "handoff" between the ADCs.  I saw a video where someone showed some asymetrical wave files when the handoff between the two is involved.  You able to check this? 

Yep...no glitches for me during the battery run time test.

As reported earlier, I ran two battery tests.  The first one had the automix function on and MAN is that ever funky.  Totally useless for anything that we do, that's for sure.  The waveform was VERY wonky with it engaged.  The second run-time test had automix off.

As previously mentioned, I think in that video there's a really good chance that he was seeing the automix handing off between the channels.  Automix causes one channel to kick in and simultaneously mutes the other channel.  Then when a louder sound occurs in the other channel, it'll instantaneously peak out and the other channel is muted.  Since I was recording background noise at home, both channels had about the same sound pressure hitting them, but even so, the level would peak out on the left channel and the right would go down to zero, and the next moment the right channel would peak and the left channel would drop to zero. 

Anyway, the second test I did had the automix feature disabled.  I checked out the waveform this morning and didn't notice anything unusual from zooming in on the waveform.  I did a spot check in a number of locations along the timeline of the recording, though with the file being almost 7 hours long, I didn't zoom in on 7 hours worth of waveform.

Thanks for this.  That actually sounds pretty promising.  Now to figure out what needs to go and stay at this point in the game.   Likely the F6 and F3 and then eventually the A10 once the PR-2ii drops.  Having the ability to sync timecode to the deck at a board while I sit in another location that's more ideal at one of the primary venues I roll in excites me more.  When I do need four channels on the same deck because I'm rolling fully open, the RiotBox will serve me well on the 1/8" input.  Will be curious to hear additional feedback on how quiet/noisy/similar the deck is to the Zoom offerings.
Mics: Neumann KK 184 capsules with nBob Actives and Naiant PFAs | Recorders: Zoom F6 and Zoom F3 w/ BTA-1 plus Sony PCM-A10 | Power: RiotBox, Neewer NP-F750 7000mAh | Video Camera: DJI Osmo Action 4

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #142 on: Today at 09:46:05 AM »
Nice review/comparison

https://youtu.be/s37E2qEavdk

This thing does look interesting. I've been wanting to upgrade to a 32bit deck.
||| MICS: DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice|||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Zoom F3 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube |||

Offline adrianf74

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #143 on: Today at 02:41:06 PM »
Quote from: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on Today at 09:46:05 AMNice review/comparison

https://youtu.be/s37E2qEavdk

This thing does look interesting. I've been wanting to upgrade to a 32bit deck.
He mentioned the XLR input with no gain measures -128dB.  I asked if he had any numbers for the mini input he has no tools for that but subjectively says it didn't sound any different -- this was answered in the comments to my question. 
Mics: Neumann KK 184 capsules with nBob Actives and Naiant PFAs | Recorders: Zoom F6 and Zoom F3 w/ BTA-1 plus Sony PCM-A10 | Power: RiotBox, Neewer NP-F750 7000mAh | Video Camera: DJI Osmo Action 4

Online Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #144 on: Today at 07:01:23 PM »
On butt-dialing the non-locking gain sliders in the Sidus app-

The gain sliders suck. They are absolutely terrible for making accurate adjustments from the app. I've had problems when trying to intentionally adjust gain that way, but have had no problems with accidental adjustments because the input gain sliders are on a separate page of the app than the page from which I'm starting/stopping recording, checking for active signal, running clock and visually checking for semi-close sync between recorders (which I do because the start/stop points on the two recorders do not sync perfectly even if their clocks have been wirelessly sync'd using the app - I've not yet tried having one recorder start the other via a wired Timecode connection, but plan to if possible)

In the Sidus app, I start/stop recording from the Workstation tab, where multiple recorders which have been grouped together are able to be controlled simultaneously.
Changing gain requires switching to the devices tab, then clicking on the particular device to be controlled, then adjusting the gain sliders.  So at least it's buried several pages away.  I may switch over to the Device tab to confirm settings, but I always switch back to the Workstation tab immediately afterward.

I don't know if control of a single recorder works the same way, achieving the same defacto "lock" by controlling transport, monitoring clock and signal from a separate page than the gain-sliders or not.  I only started using the app when I started running the second recorder and always use both of them.  But I assume a single recorder can be controlled from the workstation screen.

Also as you mentioned, there is also confirmation anytime the recording is stopped or the recorders are remotely powered down using the app.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:33:44 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to for the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: Version 4 provided in individual sections rather than a single booklet)

Online Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-4 Recorder
« Reply #145 on: Today at 07:32:00 PM »
On the switching routine between multiple ADC's-

This isn't the easily seen and heard channel muting done by Automix.  It will be very, very subtle, and should be effectively inaudible except under extreme artificially manipulated scenarios.  It specifically concerns the hand-off between the outputs of the lower-level ADC and the higher-level ADC.  Since all ADC switching routines are proprietary, we don't know much about what artifacts might occur, when, and to what extent.  This first came up in discussions about the Zoom F3, where presumably it was audible in some sound-design effects recordings pitched down from ultrasonic to audible range.  Zoom issued a firmware update I think and I've not heard more discussion about it since.  I don't think it's much of a practical concern, but it is a philosophical concern, and one that still bothers me about "32-bit recorders" in general.  The manufactures moved the goal post - for convenience, away from perfection.  Formerly the goal was analog-to-digital conversion that was as perfectly linear as possible across the entire audio spectrum within the dynamic range limits of the preamp and ADC - sort of an analog equivalent to digital "bit-perfect".  In designs using switched ADCs this is philosophically no longer the case.  Some distortion during the switch between ADCs is accepted as inevitable for the system to work as designed.  The goal of absolute analog fidelity (input = output) is sacrificed for the convenience of not having to set levels.  That trade off is a practical one that is worth it for most users in most cases, but it still bothers me philosophically, partly because what was formerly a clear, fundamental goal has been sacrificed for convenience.  These new recording systems are no longer universal but can be problematic in special cases, like recording ultrasonic sounds and pitching them down for sound design work.  The goal of convenience has eclipsed the goal of perfection. We are no longer aiming to design the most perfect audio recorders possible in terms of analog input = output.  Not having to set levels has become more important.

^
More importantly and OT, that calls into question the "truly analog perfect" nature of any recorder capable of 32-bit float which utilizes multiple switched ADCs.  As long as digital inputs to the PR-4 bypass the ADCs and switching routine, which they should, digital inputs should be capable of being recorded in a "bit-perfect" way.  But when recording an analog input, the switching between ADC's which serves to extend dynamic range capability without the users having to set gain must be handled very carefully, and can not be done absolutely perfectly. It will introduce some kind of distortion during the switch in some scenarios. How its done is handled differently by each manufacturer, cloaked in patent protections, and not discussed openly. Manufacturers have taken a "trust us it works" mentality.

As loose analogy, think of this sort of like modes of amplification. A "class A mode" amplifier does no switching between output devices and thus offers lower distortion than a class A/B amplifier.  Does it matter?  In some cases it does.  We expect class A mode in microphone amplifiers, mic preamps and in other low current devices where low distortion is needed and inefficiency isn't problematic.  And its not too bad for things like low-powered headphone amps, just dump the extra heat.  But when producing enough wattage to drive speaker loads class A inefficiency quickly becomes problematic and most folks readily accept a "less pure" class A/B design, or some other form of switching amplifier.  The reduction in weight, heat, cost, and increase in efficiency is an easy trade for most folks, if not everyone.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:38:45 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to for the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: Version 4 provided in individual sections rather than a single booklet)

 

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