Topic: Help with a portable system for bird recordings

[hullyjr]

Hi,

First off , I'm no audiophile, so be patient with my dumb questions.  I say dumb because I've asked these questions in other forums or to the pertinent manufacturers and failed to get an answer. I have a simple idea (at least to me) - put together a high-quality, portable recording system for taping bird songs/calls using a Sennheiser K6/ME67 (arguably the best mic for this application) with the newer solid state/hard drive/flash card recorder. I have the mic and use it with an old crappy MD or an older WalkMan Pro but thanks to Sony I cannot EASILY transfer the recordings to/from my computer.
I don't have the shoulders to carry a Marantz PMD670 or equivalent and I've developed a pathological hatred for anything Sony. I've read that the newer iRiver hard drives have the potential for making decent recording (uncompressed) but do I need a mic pre-amp for my  K6/Me67 to use their line-in? A call to iRiver Tech support was a complete waste of time. If I do need one or having one would make the recordings even better what would you recommend? And lastly, who makes the best XLR-1/8" cables? I'm also looking for a small shockmount for the Sennheiser.

Thanks for any advice

Jim Hully
Salisbury. MA

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Many people here run this setup (which I think is plenty small)

[mics] -> Edirol UA-5 -> Creative Nomad Jukebox 3.

The UA5 is about 9x5X1 inches. The Nomad is about the size of typical portable CD player. You would need to buy the UA5 from Oade.com because they modify it so you can use it without hooking it up to a computer (it was inteneded as a preamp for computer recording).

Another option is to use a Deneke PS-2 (phantom power supply) -> Deneke AD-20 (A/D convertor with optical out) in place of the UA5. Actually that is a bit smaller but it's 2 pieces.

As far as the recorder goes. Go with the Nomad. The iRiver can't touch it.

Hope that helps. Sounds like fun.

MIKE B

[AT853rxwh]

Many people here run this setup (which I think is plenty small)

[mics] -> Edirol UA-5 -> Creative Nomad Jukebox 3.

The UA5 is about 9x5X1 inches. The Nomad is about the size of typical portable CD player. You would need to buy the UA5 from Oade.com because they modify it so you can use it without hooking it up to a computer (it was inteneded as a preamp for computer recording).

Another option is to use a Deneke PS-2 (phantom power supply) -> Deneke AD-20 (A/D convertor with optical out) in place of the UA5. Actually that is a bit smaller but it's 2 pieces.

As far as the recorder goes. Go with the Nomad. The iRiver can't touch it.

Hope that helps. Sounds like fun.

MIKE B

I would vote for a Mixpre or MP-2 from sound devices.  The reason I say this is that you will need a considerable amount of gain for nature recording.  (that or a shotgun mic)  The mixpre and mp-2 are EXTREMELY quiet and will work well in that environment.  As for a recording device, the device of choice is the Nomad Jukebox 3.  Has USB and Firewire for transfers. 

You will find that most folks here are recording relatively LOUD sound.  Your situation is unique in that you need a fair amount of gain with low noise, most here need no gain (and sometimes attenuation is called for!) so your specific needs are imho quite different...

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I would vote for a Mixpre or MP-2 from sound devices.  The reason I say this is that you will need a considerable amount of gain for nature recording.  (that or a shotgun mic)  The mixpre and mp-2 are EXTREMELY quiet and will work well in that environment. 

Oh, yeah. That's a good point. They're even smaller than what I suggested too.

MIKE B

[keepongoin]

i think the mic he has is a shotgun type mic.

the AD-20 and PS2 are nice and small, and are rugged - they could stand up to years of abuse.  The AD-20 adds 17dB of gain, minimum, generates a clean sound, and both can run on 9v batteries.  The nomad jukebox3 can take the digital in from the AD-20 and records in wave format at 44.1 khz.  

The JB3 can be bought on ebay - 200 shipped
AD-20 goes for around 200.
PS-2 goes for 100-200.
XLR cables will cost around 25 bucks if you solder them yourself.
An optical (TOSLINK) with mini plug can be found for under 20 bucks.

On a side note: do you do research?  what types of birds do you work with?  

[zhianosatch]

The AD-20 gets hissy with the gain cranked.

[keepongoin]

i have never had to turn up the gain on my AD-20.  it provides 17dB of gain with the knobs on the minimum setting!!

[hullyjr]

Thanks for the responses but we have different ideas about size, and as pointed out, my application is quite different. For a start, anything bigger than an iPod is too big. Most of the pre-amps suggested are as big as the Marantz PMD670. I'm not worried about stealth but I already carry too much shit when I'm in the field.  Isn't there anything smaller and cheaper!! For example, like the MicTube from Maycom (apparently this does not work with my type of mic). I never understood electronics at school and that was 25 years ago so you can image how basic

The K6 powered/ME67 is a long shotgun that I use to "pull" or isolate a particular song out from a cacophany of sounds, often very far away. I enjoy making recording of the different birds (& amphibians) that call at dawn from various habitats around the world. However, it really comes into it's own when I cannot see or, more often, when I can't recognize a sound. I simply record the bird and then play it back using a very small portable speaker. This usually causes (some say disturbs) the bird to come closer to check out the challenger (me) enabling identification.

 Basically, I'm tired of struggling with tapes or MDs when it comes to editing. The mic does not work on a line-level input, so some form of signal gain is required.

Thanks

Jim

[AT853rxwh]

Thanks for the responses but we have different ideas about size, and as pointed out, my application is quite different. For a start, anything bigger than an iPod is too big. Most of the pre-amps suggested are as big as the Marantz PMD670. I'm not worried about stealth but I already carry too much shit when I'm in the field.  Isn't there anything smaller and cheaper!! For example, like the MicTube from Maycom (apparently this does not work with my type of mic). I never understood electronics at school and that was 25 years ago so you can image how basic

The K6 powered/ME67 is a long shotgun that I use to "pull" or isolate a particular song out from a cacophany of sounds, often very far away. I enjoy making recording of the different birds (& amphibians) that call at dawn from various habitats around the world. However, it really comes into it's own when I cannot see or, more often, when I can't recognize a sound. I simply record the bird and then play it back using a very small portable speaker. This usually causes (some say disturbs) the bird to come closer to check out the challenger (me) enabling identification.

 Basically, I'm tired of struggling with tapes or MDs when it comes to editing. The mic does not work on a line-level input, so some form of signal gain is required.

Thanks

Jim

I don't know if you are going to find anything that small that won't introduce a fair amount of hiss.  If that is not an issue, you can pick up a cheap amp (bout the size of an ipod) off ebay for $40ish, but don't expect stellar results.  From what I have read the MP-2 / mixpre is used often for nature sounds, but that is usually to archive the nature sound...

[greenone]

How about a line transformer? Basically a couple inches long and goes right in line with your cables. Check this thread: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=2454.0

--Dave

[Sean Gallemore]

the Neuros is a lot cheaper than the IRiver

[Brian Skalinder]

Best of luck finding a preamp/recorder combo smaller and easier than a Sound Devices MP2 or MixPre and a Nomad Jukebox 3 or Neuros HD recorder.  Preamps don't come much (any?) smaller than the MP2 and still offer quality variable gain.

If you can live with ~20-25 dB of fixed gain, the line transformers are a great, cheap way to go, but I'm guessing they won't provide enough gain.

[Sean Gallemore]

this has me inspired.  Hopefully I can talk my dad into a 3 day trip into the mountains, 30 GB of nature recordings would kick ass

[greenone]

If you can live with ~20-25 dB of fixed gain, the line transformers are a great, cheap way to go, but I'm guessing they won't provide enough gain.

Just curiuos Brian, can you piggyback them at all, or can you only run one per channel?

[Brian Skalinder]

Just curiuos Brian, can you piggyback them [line transformers] at all, or can you only run one per channel?

The same thought crossed my mind and...dunno!