Topic: Comp - KM184>V2 vs. MK22>Riotbox

[Gutbucket]

..some backstory as to how I came to the above revelation-

When I was regularly attending and recording orchestral concerts in a few near world-class halls, from a position directly behind the conductor where the dynamics were extreme, I determined the gain setting needed to accommodate the full dynamic range of those events and then never needed revisit it.  The acoustic noise floor in those extremely well-isolated halls was significantly lower than anywhere else I'd record. It took some doing early on to determine correct level setting, and then to fully determine what established the noise floor of the recording, but I was able to dial in gain such that the noise floor of the recording was dominated by the acoustic noise of the room while thunderous fortississimo (f f f) passages and any overly energetic applause by immediately adjacent concert goers were fully accommodated.  I was able to do that using an external preamp into a digital recorder which when operated in 24bit mode realistically achieved a dynamic range of only few bits more than would have been available in 16bit mode. I had a second lower-gain preamp setting I'd switch to for PA-amplified material dominated by heavy subwoofer content or for recording in very close proximity to a drum kit where transient peaks are extreme  That's all it took - two gain settings to accommodate any real world live music performance.

When I later moved to using Zoom F8 in my open recording rig, that previous experience in correctly gain-staging the more dynamically limited small recording rig made switching to setting gain once and leaving it alone somewhat easier to adopt.  Honestly it took a few years to break the old habit of "normalizing via gain tweaks prior to recording, rather than afterward", and I admit I've not fully done so.  I'll still up the gain for quieter material partly for raw playback convenience and to get the meters showing good movement, even though I know the recording won't really benefit or suffer from doing so.

[Thelonious]

While I appreciate there is a robust discussion on the need for (or lack of) 32bit recording and the importance of gain staging, perhaps it would make sense to have another thread for that conversation?

[Gutbucket]

Agreed

[goodcooker]

For fun I made a comparison track that switches between sources every 20 seconds for 2 minutes of one song then the last 20 seconds is the two sources at the same time.

https://on.soundcloud.com/2EjcIZYCueETowhlBd

The only change was I added 2 dB of gain on the KM184 source to the right channel. It was off which may contribute some to the perception of the stereo field.

It's km184 first then mk22 second alternating

I like the KM184 source but I tend to like mics that have that "air" or sparkle rather than the flat sound of the mk22. When it switches it seems like someone has laid a handkerchief over the drums. The snap of the stick striking the head is different.

[Thelonious]

Hmmm, very interesting. Thanks for doing that. I think I hear the right channel drop in volume when going from the 184s to the mk22s now and I’m wondering if it impacts the overall perception of volume as I had matched the rms on the original files.

I still hear more air and detail in the 184s and the whole thing seems more together with the 22s but this is definitely closer and, to be honest, I listen to and enjoy both recordings based on my mood.

Is it possible to download the file at full resolution (I’m assuming it’s an mp3 I’m streaming)?

Thanks again, the autoswitching back and forth is definitely a better way to compare the two over switching back and forth forth between the files in the player…

[goodcooker]

^ I enabled direct download for the track. It will be the original FLAC file I uploaded not the lower res streaming version. Click on the more button [...] and download track should appear in the drop down menu.

I picked a tune, downloaded the flac, converted it to wav and loaded it into Wavelab. From the visual display of the waveforms I could tell the right channel of the KM184 source was a little low so I split each source in to separate mono files and measured LUFS (perceived loudness which would be better for a comparison IMO).

[Thelonious]

^thank you again, this is super helpful!

[Gutbucket]

Nice. Groovy tune and good recordings. Both of which work nicely. Difference is pretty much as I'd suspect from those mics. More top end, direct frontal focus, and somewhat less room and audience with the 184s. More bottom, open smoothness, room and audience with the 22's. 

Thanks for sharing this.

While listening and describing what I heard a thought came to me which I wrote a short paragraph about here, but figure it better suited to the OMT thread, so ended up expounding on it much more over there. Link for anyone interested- https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=204186.msg2439466#msg2439466