Topic: How high should I run?

[greenone]

So last weekend I was taping an outdoor show (Guster at Plymouth State's Spring Fling). I set my stand up right at the board, mounted the mics and started to hoist them as high as they would go (about 10 feet), aiming at the speaker stacks, which were suspended from the ends of beams that criss-crossed the stage and stuck out over the front corners.

The band's sound engineer wanders over to me and suggests lowering the stand to about 7 feet, telling me that the sound would be better lower down because the line array they were using was more coherent at head level or just above. The show was somewhat sparsely attended, so I wasn't really in danger of having people sitting right below my rig, shouting into it, so I gave it a shot. To my surprise, the tape came out sounding really good -  the bass was much fuller than other tapes I've made of them, and it did sound coherent, for lack of a better way of explaining it. It's not like he was telling me to lower my stand because I was blocking anyone; there was nobody behind me to block. He's gotten to know me over the last month and I think he was just passing along some good advice based on what he knew of his setup.

So my question is this - what's a good rule of thumb to be aiming at, height-wise? Obviously the crowd will be a factor, but in general, if you've got a vertical stack system with the highs coming out of the top and the lows coming out of the bottom (which is what I was led to believe in terms of how this one worked), do you want to aim in the middle? Slightly lower than the middle?

Also, if you're under some sort of an overhang, like I was at WSP in Boston, do you want to run exactly halfway between the tops of people's heads and the overhang, or is slightly higher or lower better? Thanks for any feedback...having fun playing with my new toys.

--Dave

[creekfreak]

I find its a fuction of many things. Most of the time, in smaller places lower will sound better, but if the place is packed you will pick up mad chatter which can make the tape sound bad. In those situations I tend to run higher, it might not be in the sweet spot anymore, but less chatter is picked up.

[greenone]

Yeah...obviously you want as little chatter as possible, but in a situation like mine - no people nearby, just all the room in the world to point at the stacks - what do you do? What do stack tapers tend to do? I've never been to a show where people sit right up next to the stacks and taper there...what's the best place to aim?

--Dave

[BlugrassBri]

I run mine around 7 feet or so all the time...except at very large venues.  My reasoning is this...the sound engineer mixes from an elevation 6' off the floor. so thats where he's aiming to get the best sound at.  Plus if its line array, they are meant to be heard at head level not 10' up..

Also, I like to re-create my concert experience so I run the mics pretty close to the elevation of my ears (6') but up just enough to lessen some of the crowd...

my .02

[plucks]

Not this again
Here's a link to a previous conversation that is somewhat on topic as well: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1722

Phil

[JeffK]

It's very show/venue dependant.  It's nice when the sound engineer gives you the heads up though!  

I've seen some people with their stands HIGHER than the stacks... I just look and laugh.  

I generally just look at how high the stacks are hung, then look at them to see if they're angled up/down at all or pointing straight out.  If they're pointing straight out, then I know to run the stand at about the middle of the stacks (assuming you're not 100' away).  Or you can make it easy and go FOB... then run at head height to stay lower profile

[wboswell]

This thread touches on the same question I had yesterday about "aiming" the mic configuration vertically.  If you run your stand lower and point the configuration high on the stacks or vice versa, what is the result?  Obviously, the more directional your mic polar pattern is, the more effected it is by such variations.  An example is the difference in sound when you are bending over your deck adjusting levels, then standing up and everything sounding much clearer.  It is much easier for a microphone to reject high freq. than it can reject low.  Or better stated, high freq are more directional than lows.

As I stated earlier, I feel like certain freq. are carried at different levels and by aiming your mic, you can better utilize the sound you are looking for.

Be well,
William
 

[John R]

in a phased array, you want your mics at around head height.  the speakers are tuned to your position wherever you're standing.  so when you're in the section, and the guy next to you has his mics at around 13 ft., he's getting sound that's being sent to the back of the 'room' and it will be muddy.  i wanted to confirm my suspicions about this once and asked pete from sci about it.  he said to place mine at the same elevation as theirs and has told that to the section numerous times at shows.  

jr

[blu666z]

Depends on how much pot you have left.

-Kevin

[rabhan]

i used to run 7ft, but i would get waaaay too much ground chat in 700-2000 seat venues. now, i try to run about 9ft (not that high if low ceiling) and it has really helped to decrease the chatter.

[JAH]

Depends on how much pot you have left.

-Kevin

I've been think of the same type of remark but thought Discobean would chime in  So how High can you get and still run?  Hopefully you don't have to run at all...just fly 'em
  To add some usefull info...I think that the7' to 8' is a nice inbetween the crowd and the sound over head.  Stick you arm up in the air and make that your limit.

[F.O.Bean]

Depends on how much pot you have left.

-Kevin

I've been think of the same type of remark but thought Discobean would chime in  So how High can you get and still run?  Hopefully you don't have to run at all...just fly 'em
  To add some usefull info...I think that the7' to 8' is a nice inbetween the crowd and the sound over head.  Stick you arm up in the air and make that your limit.

jah,
 +T bro.......is my chiming in a bad thing???/ i hope not.....i forgot people run out of pot (some).....for those peeps, i give a +T to you.......i have had quite the potluck lately.......and you're right, jah, why drive when you can phly........

bean

p.s.- i'm trying on the keif thing this summer......

[trippingjonny]

hey dave that guy with guster is a trip. he told a fellow taper he runs 5 dollar mic cables on stage  \ and spending $50 on mic calbes for taping wasnt worth it. also made fun of a fellow female taper who was running AB saying "why wont she jsut spread em?"...he he he much better that the last guy IMO

[F.O.Bean]

hey dave that guy with guster is a trip. he told a fellow taper he runs 5 dollar mic cables on stage  \ and spending $50 on mic calbes for taping wasnt worth it. also made fun of a fellow female taper who was running AB saying "why wont she jsut spread em?"...he he he much better that the last guy IMO

spread em.......hahahaha thats good shit....

+T trippingjonny.......

bean