FR2 Question

[jpschust]

This got lost in another thread- has anyone tried the FR2 at 24/192?

[BobW]

This got lost in another thread- has anyone tried the FR2 at 24/192?

Someone has posted on using it for FX work, I don't see it a necessary or practical for music recording.
I think that it requires fast solid-state media (CF).

[jpschust]

i see it as highly practical.  go straight to dvd at 24/192 and maximize my dvd's output

[BobW]

i see it as highly practical.  go straight to dvd at 24/192 and maximize my dvd's output

Maximize your DVD's output ? 
I doubt that you'd her the difference over 24/96.  96kHz sampling yields a Nyquist of 42kHz of sound,
far above the hearing of even a poodle.  Pretty close to the limit of transparency, if not over it.

The 192kHz sampling is important when FX files are manipulated, as in slowed down, for synch'ing and FX, like slo-mo or foley.

I wonder if any commercial DVDs are recorded at 192kHz. 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Nyquist gets misused all the time for justifying a lower sampling rate.  The maximum reproduced frequency is only part of the equation when reproducing multi channel sound.  quoted from http://www.24bitfaq.org/ :


0.3.5        Which is said to provide greater benefit to the listener over conventional 16-bit 44.1/48kHz recordings: Increased sampling rate or increased word length?

A: Increased word length.  From Ken Pohlmann's "Principles of Digital Audio," 4th edition, p390-391:

"The use of high sampling rates such as 96 and 192kHz may seem unnecessary.  In rare cases, a person may be able to hear frequencies of 24 or 26kHz, far below the cutoff frequencies of 48 and 96kHz [for 96 and 192kHz sampling rates respectively].  In most cases, high frequency hearing response is below 20kHz.  Thus, for steady-state tones, the higher frequency response may not be useful.  However, it can be argued that high sampling frequencies improve binaural time response, leading to improved imaging.  For example, if short pulses are applied to each ear, a 15 microseconds difference between the pulses can be heard, and that time difference is shorter than the time between two samples at 48kHz.  Some people can hear a 5 microseconds difference, and that corresponds to the time difference between two samples at 192kHz.  In theory, this high sampling rate may improve spatial imaging.  Thus, it may take two ears to distinguish between a recording at 48kHz, and one at 192kHz."

[BobW]

Some people can hear a 5 microseconds difference, and that corresponds to the time difference between two samples at 192kHz.  In theory, this high sampling rate may improve spatial imaging.  Thus, it may take two ears to distinguish between a recording at 48kHz, and one at 192kHz."

Very valid point, but I wonder if they could hear that difference through a Mono PA and in an echoic soundspace.

A few very reputable recording engineers say that they can hear a difference between 96K and 192K.
A few say they cannot hear the difference, even in studio conditions.

As time and media permit it, 192Khz will no doubt become the standard, but I think that it is premature.
24/96 is very impressive, especially when recording in live venues.  As in most technology, the gains diminish toward the extremes. The media requirements double or quadruple, but the gain is only for some occasional transient information.
The typical D/A converter could eat that information for lunch without burping and we'd never even know it was there.

Have you seen the new Dual-Media disks ?  DVD-A on one side and SACD on the other.  King Solomon's Solution   
The outlook is looking better.  More Hi-Res audio will mean more options for us.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I haven't had a chance to listen to 24/192 but I doubt I'm one of the lucky ones with that level of hearing to pick it out from 24/96.  Even so, I'm going to record 24/192 when I have the capability.   Optical storage is cheap.

I have not seen the Dual Media discs.  I really need to get a multiformat player.  There are more things coming out all the time and I would probably buy studio releases if I could play them in hires.  I had a loaner, so I know what I'm missing.