Topic: recommendation on steatlh mic for jb3 without use of battery pack

[karmapolice]

Hi,

I need advice on a steatlh mic for jb3 to use for shows where need to be discreet.  I would not be using a battery pack so please can anyone advise me on what is the best (or one of the best) stealth mic for use when not using a battery pack. 

Thanks

Michael

[Brian]

search for sony ecm microphones

[hexyjones]

Not sure there is such a thing...but here's an answer NOBODY will like...

There is no attenuation available on the JB3 mic pre...that is somewhat crippling...it's almost guarenteed to overload...no matter what mic you might try...

So you will need attenuators...which will add bulk and more metal things to your rig...

Or...(and here's the part no one will like)...get one of these...(they seldom bring more than 15 bucks...)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3763326989&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

They have the lowest output of any mic I've tried...and they dont sound THAT bad - specially for stealthing...and for the money you cant go wrong...

[hhf32]

Hexyjones...I have one of those realistic mics too. I never used it to record a show but I had some fun with it when I first got an MD. I think I picked mine up for around $10 off ebay a couple years ago. For that price for a 50-20k frequency response, you can't go wrong.

[hexyjones]

Hexyjones...I have one of those realistic mics too. I never used it to record a show but I had some fun with it when I first got an MD. I think I picked mine up for around $10 off ebay a couple years ago. For that price for a 50-20k frequency response, you can't go wrong.

And for that price - you dont have be afraid to disassemble it and make it fit into a hat...

It's basically an XY arrangement...

I've made some good recordings with them...

[Humbug]

My recommendation is Sony ECM-717.



This can make acceptable to good recordings.

It is possible to stealth with a battery box, and you will get better results with a better setup, but for the price, I dont think theres much can beat this clip-on mic.

[silverbullet]

if you need an attenuator you can pick one up at SP or RS. SP has these for $7 but I'm betting I picked up the same exact thing at RS for less. I lost my first one. I use this between a V3 and my JB3 (line-in) as a b/u when doing 24/96 lappie recordings. Works much easier than adjusting the levels on the JB3. Probably could use the same thing on a MD where you can't adjust the levels on the fly.

battery boxes don't have to be much larger that a 9v battery. I just use velcro on the back of my DAT or JB3 and stick it there.

[dklein]

There is no attenuation available on the JB3 mic pre...that is somewhat crippling...it's almost guarenteed to overload...no matter what mic you might try...

So you will need attenuators...which will add bulk and more metal things to your rig...

oh man...hexy...deja vu.  Why would anyone need attenuation?  Quite the opposite - you will likely need a preamp.  You have to use line-in and these mics aren't going to put out anything near line level.

And to make sure I wasn't nuts, I just recorded the same thing using CSBs with mic-in and line-in.  There was no brickwalling - music was at conversation level and the peaks were at -55 dB.   The top end of the mic-in is not there - high frequency rolloff is built in to the mic-in setting.  It is completely unsuitable for music recording.

What experiences have you had that have you convinced the JB3 easily brickwalls?

[silverbullet]

ditto - I could never tape mic-in with a JB3 or DAT for that matter. Always Line-In with a battery box.

[hexyjones]

There is no attenuation available on the JB3 mic pre...that is somewhat crippling...it's almost guarenteed to overload...no matter what mic you might try...

So you will need attenuators...which will add bulk and more metal things to your rig...

oh man...hexy...deja vu.  Why would anyone need attenuation?  Quite the opposite - you will likely need a preamp.  You have to use line-in and these mics aren't going to put out anything near line level.

And to make sure I wasn't nuts, I just recorded the same thing using CSBs with mic-in and line-in.  There was no brickwalling - music was at conversation level and the peaks were at -55 dB.   The top end of the mic-in is not there - high frequency rolloff is built in to the mic-in setting.  It is completely unsuitable for music recording.

What experiences have you had that have you convinced the JB3 easily brickwalls?

Here's what I am basing my theorys on...and I have to go back to the old school to explain this...

I own a Sony D5 portable analog recorder. Very nice device...Pro-sumer type thing...sold in the Sony Pro Line...
It has two 1/4 inch unbalanced inputs...it also has a switch..."0db" and "-20db"...you simply cannot record a show with the switch in the 0db position.....same with the sony portable DATs...if you do...you will get either rampant distortion...or at best, a muffled souding, noisy recording...sounds just like what happens with the JB3...?

You do understand that the JB3 mic-in IS a mic-preamp...? ( I can tell some don't understand that)

Has anyone tried to use the JB3 mic in with some quality attenuators? That's the only test Im willing to accept...

There is a QUANTUM leap between mic voltage and line level...so of course - no mic will produce that kind of output...

Again...I can believe that there is some sort of roll off...but it just seems pretty strange that they would do that...

Unrealated question...I wonder if the mic-pre behaves differently with different versions of the Jb3 firmware...

Folks - Im not about to start using the mic in...but using the line in and adding 20 something db of gain is post production is not a great way to tape...

[dklein]

Here's what I am basing my theorys on...and I have to go back to the old school to explain this...

I own a Sony D5 portable analog recorder. Very nice device...Pro-sumer type thing...sold in the Sony Pro Line...
It has two 1/4 inch unbalanced inputs...it also has a switch..."0db" and "-20db"...you simply cannot record a show with the switch in the 0db position.....same with the sony portable DATs...if you do...you will get either rampant distortion...or at best, a muffled souding, noisy recording...sounds just like what happens with the JB3...?

You do understand that the JB3 mic-in IS a mic-preamp...? ( I can tell some don't understand that)

No problem with the old school stuff.  Yes, your sony preamp was easily overloaded.  if you define a mic preamp as something that can boost mic level to line level than sure, I understand that there is one in the JB3.   I have one other basic requirement - that it actually produces something sonically similar to the original input (which this does not due to the hf loss)

Has anyone tried to use the JB3 mic in with some quality attenuators? That's the only test Im willing to accept...

This is whacked.  I just used low sensitivity mics and low SPLs to produce a recording so low it was barely audible or visible in a wave editor.  What would an attenuator do?  The fact that I can push the SPLs up during recording and see a corresponding increase in the recorded file is evidence that the preamp is not brickwalling.  Brickwalling is when you've hit the limit.  An attenuator will just exacerbate the problem and raise the hard drive noise even further relative to the musical signal.

Folks - Im not about to start using the mic in...but using the line in and adding 20 something db of gain is post production is not a great way to tape...

Finally - something we can agree on! 

I'm all for the theoretical approach but sometimes you gotta plug stuff in to find out the truth.  I clearly have too much time on my hands 

[Brian Skalinder]

you simply cannot record a show with the switch in the 0db position.....same with the sony portable DATs...if you do...you will get either rampant distortion...or at best, a muffled souding, noisy recording...sounds just like what happens with the JB3...?

The overloading / brickwalling I've heard from portable DATs doesn't sound like the results I've heard out of David's JB3 samples.  If I understand correctly, you're suggesting David's results are from the JB3 analog-in stage overloading, correct?  That may account for the flattening of the waveforms at the -3dB mark, but it doesn't account for the attenuation of the higher frequencies.  Would a too-strong signal cause HF attenuation?  (Not that I've heard with my own ears, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.)

Has anyone tried to use the JB3 mic in with some quality attenuators? That's the only test Im willing to accept...

Again...I can believe that there is some sort of roll off...but it just seems pretty strange that they would do that...

It's also pretty strange that they happened to implement the optical-in feature quite well.  Keep in mind we (arguably pro-sumers) are not the target audience for these devices.  Rather, they're targeted directly at the consumer market.  Granted, pure speculation, but applying the roll-off could've simply been a response to cover up nasty characteristics of their mic-in amplification process, or any other slew of reasons that Creative somehow thought the consumer market would find beneficial.  As we're all likely familiar, there's no accounting for some "features" put into plenty of electronic devices.

Unrealated question...I wonder if the mic-pre behaves differently with different versions of the Jb3 firmware...

When you complete your testing, please also include the firmware used.

but using the line in and adding 20 something db of gain is post production is not a great way to tape...

No doubt!!

Has anyone tried to use the JB3 mic in with some quality attenuators? That's the only test Im willing to accept...

Please let us know when we can expect your test results?