Topic: hello & stealth/open rigs

[marod70]

Hello.  With all of the knowledgeable folks around here and a search function, I thought I might never have to post anything, but apparently too much info is a dangerous thing.     

I currently stealth with SP cards or hypers into a battery box with bass roll-off going into a D8.  I have been pleased with some of the recordings but am considering an upgrade.  My problem is that after all of the research, I cannot decide on what I want and was hoping to get a few peoples’ opinions. 

Part of the problem is that my taping habits are all over the place.  I have been to large arenas (pulled a nice Sarah Brightman from Oakland Arena last week), to crappy casino shows with boomy rooms (George Jones), to small clubs and bars (Junior Brown)  to the big sheds like Shoreline in Mt. View, CA (Wilco).   I tend to tape a variety of types of music as well.  I have taped or plan to tape Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Junior Brown, Blind Boys of Alabama, Dolly Parton, George Jones, Bruce Springsteen, Dar Williams, Sarah Brightman, Hot Club of Cowtown, Iron Maiden, Susan Tedeschi, Tom Jones, David Grisman Quintet, etc.  You get the idea.  I also hope to open tape but that would be on very rare occasions. 

I think I have decided to go the digi-mod UA-5 > JB3 route with my D8 as a backup (for whatever reason).  My problem comes to mics.  I am saving up but I am not sure exactly what I am looking for.  I know Schoeps has a setup that covers both stealth and open taping but that is pricey, doable in a couple of years, but still pricey.  Are there any other brands that you can go from stealth to open with minor setup?  If not, I think I would be pleased with the Superlux mics for open taping, which leaves the stealth setup.  For stealth, I am looking for something that can do reasonably well in all types of settings and I would like to be able to forego the base roll-off option.  I am looking for a mic that will give a nice even response across the board as it were (not sure if that is correct terminology to express by idea).  I am still relatively new to this (been taping about a year doing nothing more than pointing mics and hitting start), so any input on a good stealth mic and setup that will allow me to record the loud rock shows (Dylan, Neil, Maiden) and record the quieter stuff (DGQ, Dar Williams solo) would be appreciated.   I am not sure how stealthy the UA-5 and JB3 are, so any suggestions there would be welcomed as well. 

Also, some minor questions about mics.  In looking at the different patterns of pickup for mics, what is the MK-4v vertical, side address cardioid capsule and how is this different from a standard cardiod?  When and where would a figure-of-8 pattern be used? 

Sorry for rambling and all of the questions.  I have done a search here at taperssection but I am really looking for a few more opinions. 

Thanks again and this is an amazing site!

Mark
South Lake Tahoe, CA   

[MattD]

I'd say the Audix Micros might be the mics you're looking for. I wouldn't think stealthing a UA-5 would be easy at all. Perhaps Audix > Sound Devices MP-2/Mixpre > D8/JB3 would be good for your purposes, especially if you're mostly stealthing. The MP-2 gives you a nice range of gain. However, it's not a transparent preamp, if that's something that matters to you.

Figure-of-8 patterns would be best onstage, close to the sound source. It might also be decent in recording classical or chamber music in a quiet hall. Moke would know more about that, since I bet he at least tried it when he had his ADKs.

[pfife]

Audio Technica 853Rx.

I really like mine.

I have stealthed the UA-5 a number of times, but it's only in places where there is no security check upon entering.  It would be difficult to sneak in a UA-5 and batteries to power it, I'm afraid.

[marod70]

Thanks for the info so far. 

I have been looking at the Audix mics and have seen many favorable reviews.  In regards to running them with the MP-2, you mentioned it is not a transparent preamp, how does it effect the recording or what does it add or take away from the recording?

[Tim]

Also, some minor questions about mics.  In looking at the different patterns of pickup for mics, what is the MK-4v vertical, side address cardioid capsule and how is this different from a standard cardiod? 

it is no different than any other small diaphragm cardioid except that the mic is mounted vertically instead of being "pointed" forward. The Schoeps V series also have a highfrequency boost.

When and where would a figure-of-8 pattern be used?

A pair of crossed figure eights is called "Blumlein", this sounds good up close or onstage... I have many jazz and classical recordings using this stereo technique.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=130

A figure 8 is also used as the Side in the Mid/Side (M/S) stereo technique.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=126

those are the instances where I have used Fig 8's...

[MattD]

I find the mp2 to be a bit boomy in the low end. I've only heard it (well, Shure FP24 - which is a rebranded MixPre) with Audix Micros in John Kelly's rig. I used to borrow an mp2 to stealth with. It definitely was loose in the low end with my DPAs. Again, for an open rig that you can also stealth at this price point, it's hard to do better. For a different sound in a small package, look at the Sonosax SX-M2, but that's much more $$.

[marod70]

Thanks for the info in the MP2.  I am trying to avoid a boomy sound as much as possible.

If I just focused on the stealth rig, and ignoring the size difference, is there a huge sound quality difference between the UA-5 and the Denecke PS-2/AD-20 combo?  If it is drastically different sonically and the UA-5 is far superior, I think I could stealth the UA-5 if I had to.  But I have not heard any tapes with the Denecke combo and either Audix or AT mics.  If anyone could point in the direction of some sound samples I would appreciate it.

Thanks again for all the help. 

[Jeff F]

I'm sure you've heard tapes with an AT / Denecke.  One of the Dylan tapers uses this combo.  It's not just a pre-amp, but has a built-in ADC.  He always pulls great tapes.

The Sonosax is a solid pre-amp, but yet, it's a pricy unit as well.

It sounds like you currently have an AT853 or similiar mic.  I ran with these for about 2.5 years I think and loved them.  I only took some frequency off in the battery box, other than that just ran without changing it much.  I usually got real good sound but passed all recordings through T-Racks to help give them more body.

I'm pretty sure MBHO is a fairly inexpensive (of the expensive miscs) mic.  There is also a core sound, I think, that has DPA electronics.  I don't know enough about it but know it exists and someone else might be able to elaborate.

Another option is to put the Sony bitmapper (SBM-1) between your battery box and D8.  This will give you a signal boost and could allow you to run with your current equipment.  It's also very stealthable.  You can usually find these for under $400, I think.

Hope this helps.

And welcome, +T

Jeff