Topic: Marantz PMD 660

[Jammin72]

OK Sandisc is on it's way...

Anyone need a 4GB RiData... 

[spcyrfc]

have any of you ACM users recorded acoustic unamplified music? if so was there enough gain? 
also voice recording? i posted a similar question in the 671 field and got a mixed response.

say if you were to speak directly into a microphone with a regular talking voice, where would the levels go without the pad and with the gain all the way up?
thanks
luke

[Jammin72]

It's gonna depend on the Mic.

I'll do some testing when I get mine if you haven't been anwered by then.

[Jammin72]

Here is a comp with the stock 64MB card.

Neither One of those make it sound fantastic but Without a Mic Connected you've got a very Unreal situation happening.  Both of them are quite noisy, one just adds the little tick tick tick comparatively unannoying.  Any difference recording something soft?  If there's that much noise either one is useless in my book.

{edit}

After listening to the Sandisc it is by far quieter than any of the other samples, is this also with an open channel... ie infinite ipmedance load?

Keep in mind that if you're running the 853 that it's equivalent to running say a 480 with the -10dB switch on.  Depending on the Microphone you wont have to worry about running it at such a high gain stage virutually eliminating this problem.

Unitmonster you may want to look into picking up a second set of Mics for use in for the more quiet recordings.  The DPA microdots are about 10dB hotter.


Andrew I wouldn't sweat the investment in a new card until you test your rig in a real situation.  You can always hit the +10 Swith on the 480's and never get close to needing this much gain.

I'll test both cards I've got coming and see which one I want to sell/take the 15% restocking hit on.

[aberg]

Got the notice today too that my 660 was shipped today... arriving next wednesday! 

[Jammin72]

Got the notice today too that my 660 was shipped today... arriving next wednesday! 

Fantastic!! He must've been working on them this week!

See above, don't stress your Card!

[aberg]

Got the notice today too that my 660 was shipped today... arriving next wednesday! 

Fantastic!! He must've been working on them this week!

See above, don't stress your Card!

Hmmm, Kingston's are ok in it?

[Jammin72]

Got the notice today too that my 660 was shipped today... arriving next wednesday! 

Fantastic!! He must've been working on them this week!

See above, don't stress your Card!

Hmmm, Kingston's are ok in it?

It seems that folks are using them sufficiently well.  I don't care what recorder you use if you don't have anything connected to it an you crank the input stage to it's max you're going to get some noise.  If you've got the cheese and feel better about getting something recommended  Marantz says:

   
What types of CF cards are recommended?

The Marantz PMD660 is designed to work with standard type I or type II Compact Flash cards, or Microdrives.  Because of the variety of different card formulations evolving on the market, it has been discovered that some CF manufacturers cards work better  with the PMD660 than others.  Current suggested manufacturers include; LEXAR, PNY, VIKING, IBM, and HITACHI.  Please be aware that although cards by companies not listed above may work with the PMD660, they are not recommended.

Go ahead and make the swap if you feel like you should but I would test YOUR unit with YOUR gear to see what's going to be OK for You!

Every manufactuer is going to make some crap cards (some way more than others).  It's a lot like PC Memory if you're upgrading a slew of machines you can always count on 1 or 2 sticks to fail.  There have been good reports on using the Kingston Cards here but if you want to be safe...Lexar seems to be the top of the heap.

Like I said I'm going to reserve judgement until I test the cards I've got coming.  The Higher Speed cards adding the ticking noise makes sense due to batch writing but that's only going to be an issue if it is constant throughout the gain stage with a normal load.

[Unitmonster]

Unitmonster you may want to look into picking up a second set of Mics for use in for the more quiet recordings.  The DPA microdots are about 10dB hotter.

Not too keen on doing that.  I ran my mics into a jb3 for almost 3 years and never had noise issues, so I can't see why seemingly "upgrading" my recorder should force me to buy a new set of mics.

[Jammin72]

Unitmonster you may want to look into picking up a second set of Mics for use in for the more quiet recordings.  The DPA microdots are about 10dB hotter.

Not too keen on doing that.  I ran my mics into a jb3 for almost 3 years and never had noise issues, so I can't see why seemingly "upgrading" my recorder should force me to buy a new set of mics.

The ACM was specifically tailored to shine when recording PA systems unfortunatley part of that includes not being as tailored for quieter style recordings beacuase of the adjustments in the gain stage. I would love to get into some nature recordings but know that after the modification my 660 will be virtually useless for doing that, it's part of the decision process.   I understand the frustration and was trying to offer a suggestion so that you could have a solution for a greater variety of recordings. Are you running the pad for the Jazz stuff?

[aberg]

That's a good point... the ACM really is for louder concerts... luckily that's all I ever tape.

[Unitmonster]

my own deck's issues with the Kingston card were noticeable at such a level that I had to apply noise reduction to my recordings in 1,000+ person auditoriums (John Zorn and Bell Orchestre).  To me that goes beyond the realm of inappropriate use.

Anyway, I'm a lot happier with my results since switching cards and will continue to play around for the best match.  By no means do I think it makes the deck useless, just particular.

[mmmatt]

Here is a comp with the stock 64MB card.

Neither One of those make it sound fantastic but Without a Mic Connected you've got a very Unreal situation happening.  Both of them are quite noisy, one just adds the little tick tick tick comparatively unannoying.  Any difference recording something soft?  If there's that much noise either one is useless in my book.

{edit}

After listening to the Sandisc it is by far quieter than any of the other samples, is this also with an open channel... ie infinite ipmedance load?

Keep in mind that if you're running the 853 that it's equivalent to running say a 480 with the -10dB switch on.  Depending on the Microphone you wont have to worry about running it at such a high gain stage virutually eliminating this problem.

Unitmonster you may want to look into picking up a second set of Mics for use in for the more quiet recordings.  The DPA microdots are about 10dB hotter.


Andrew I wouldn't sweat the investment in a new card until you test your rig in a real situation.  You can always hit the +10 Swith on the 480's and never get close to needing this much gain.

I'll test both cards I've got coming and see which one I want to sell/take the 15% restocking hit on.

I expect some noise... no question.  My unit is unmodded and I know that a big part of the problem is there.  However, I don't want to add noise!  I'm assuming that the stock card is "normal" level of self noise for an unmodded 660.  The sandisk is on an acm with the 20db pad on.  mine is unmodded and without the pad engaged.

Not too keen on doing that.  I ran my mics into a jb3 for almost 3 years and never had noise issues, so I can't see why seemingly "upgrading" my recorder should force me to buy a new set of mics.

I hear you here... the big + of the CF recorders was the lack of HDD noise!

I wrote Ridata and they are trying to track down one of their older 52x cards for me to try.  it is a little bit scarry that some manufactures are only making the highspeed cards now.  I don't think cf cards typically go bad though, so once you have one that works it isn't a big deal.

Matt
 

[Jammin72]

Ok this is starting to make more sense.  The Noise I'm hearing is the difference between in the self noise of the unit between modded and unmodded units, not that the Sandisc card is less noisy (as far as hiss)  Then that would leave me to believe that the only noise being added by the card is the rhythmic ticking.  I'm going to test with the unit jacked up, mics plugged in, recording silence.  Tuesday IS the day.

I still think that the problem is that we want an all in one solution that will work in all situations at that price point and it's going to be very difficult to pull that off.  The Super Mod was designed for doing higher gain work and I'm sure you won't hear anywhere close to that kind of noise in that box!  Once again the ACM is designed for LOUD music being recorded with condenser microphones.  If you need a device that will let you have that type of range you really need to look into devices like the V3 which have substantial amounts of clean gain AND can handle the type of signal that's produced at Rock Shows.

I'm OK with having to improvise for the occasional recording using different tools when I have to.  I'm fortunate that the 480's allow me to do this with one microphone system  (although I'm S.O.L. in the stealth department  ) .

[Jammin72]

The ACW 660 Has Arrived!


I cannot freakin' believe that is going to be my footprint for recording shows.  No external boxes, no external batteries... just THAT!  Holy Cow!  Now if only I got off work before 7PM...


Edit:  Just looked at the invoice again.  He's calling it a WCM 660.

Also when asked about the Pad...

Hmm, the WCM has a massive input overload point but then again, those
mics are ultra hot.  I always suggest using it unless you cannot get
enough gain as that way it is impossible to overload the mic preamps. I
need to do more test before I can suggest you run with it off unless you
switch the 480s to -10dB, then you certainly can run it with MIC ATT set
to off.

I'm thinking that unless it's a really large PA or small room I'm going to run it in the Off Position.