Attempting 1st matrix tonight

[hhf32]

I'm taping my friends band tommorow night and will probably have access to the SBD. I want to try a matrix with my UA5. I know I need to go SBD out to rca's in. It will be in a bar setting with the sbd off center slightly to the left. I don't think I'll be more than 15ft away. I won't be able to get DFC due to the set up of the bar. I'm probably going to set the sbd a few db's off peak. then top off with the mics.
  They tend to be a little heavy on the bass so I don't imagine it will be to prominent in the sbd. Any suggestions as to what config I should run with the mics, I'll be running akg 391's. They play alot of Allmans, Skynard....blues rock type of stuff, with vocals.
   Also, I will be trying a led Vu meter from the rca outs. Does the digi mod ua5 have any issues with running the rca outs and in's at the same time???
   Any suggestions or last minute tips??

                                                                             Thanks

[bagtagsell]

xy- cuts bass
din- increases (not the right word) bass

[Tim]

to give some air and spaciousness to the board feed I would run a near-coincident pattern. Probably a wide DIN or even ortf...

[mmmatt]

to give some air and spaciousness to the board feed I would run a near-coincident pattern. Probably a wide DIN or even ortf...

Yeah... especially if it is a mono board (more common than you would think)  You could even split the cards 6 or 8 ft, and point at the stacks.  This will exagerate the image some if he is running a stereo board, but will give you a nice effect with mono.  If you are more than ~30 ft from the PA I wouldn't run mics from the sbd, I would go on stage. At about 30' you start to get some time delay between the mics and the board feed.  Not too bad untill you hit about 40 ft, but potentially noticable.   If it is a really small club, I would try to get your mics on (or over) stage, beacuse the board feed with a loud rock band will be all vocals and you will want some upfront instrument sounds.  To get on stage you could ask the engineer to let you on the snakes, but you will need one more pair of mic cables.  If you do this you would most likely be best with a 50/50 mix if you can achieve it.  The propper ballance is tough to achieve even with a loud headphone amp, let alone none.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Matt

**edit**  no prob going rca in and out on the ua5

[thoman8r]

to give some air and spaciousness to the board feed I would run a near-coincident pattern. Probably a wide DIN or even ortf...

what he said.  Definitely do not run x-y.

[hhf32]

Guys....thanks for the help and +T's all around. It is definitely a small club and I'm sure it will be a mono mix. Unforunately I don't have a headphone amp so I don't know how much headphones would help me.
   I was thinking possibly on stage, if so would a wide DIN or ORTF work for this as well? I just got my new cables and xlr's this week and have'nt put them together yet so I only have one set of cables Ubless I can get them together today. Again thanks for the suggestions.

[thoman8r]

Guys....thanks for the help and +T's all around. It is definitely a small club and I'm sure it will be a mono mix. Unforunately I don't have a headphone amp so I don't know how much headphones would help me.
I was thinking possibly on stage, if so would a wide DIN or ORTF work for this as well? I just got my new cables and xlr's this week and have'nt put them together yet so I only have one set of cables Ubless I can get them together today. Again thanks for the suggestions.

I'm not an expert at matrix recordings but I believe if you run the mics on stage you may have some delay issues with the 2 inputs.

Besides, I'm not really sure why you would want to run on stage if you are doing a matrix anyway.  Like Tim said, with the mics in this situation you are basically trying to get some spaciousness and the feeling of "being there."  I don't really see why you wouldn't just run from near the board.

I mean, if you want to make an on-stage tape I'd say just do that and screw the sbd feed alltogether.

Just my .02

[BJ]

Here is my story, the link for the matrix on archive is actually my second attempt!

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?topic=14715.0
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=11345

The ts.com link just shows the situation of my first MAT, which i learned from, the archive link is my second MAT.  When i did the Speakeasy Mat, I ran ORTF, and my mic stand was a little left of the graphic...as I borrowed a boom, but still not dfc(not even close)...I think the situation seems VERY close to yours..same setup and all.  You can listen to the d/l and see what you think of it.  I ran about 60(mics)/40(sbd) that night.  Good luck!

Edit, Brian Skalinder:  don't mind me, just fixing the yabbse in the TS link above.

[hhf32]

Here is my story, the link for the matrix on archive is actually my second attempt!

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14715.0
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=11345

The ts.com link just shows the situation of my first MAT, which i learned from, the archive link is my second MAT.  When i did the Speakeasy Mat, I ran ORTF, and my mic stand was a little left of the graphic...as I borrowed a boom, but still not dfc(not even close)...I think the situation seems VERY close to yours..same setup and all.  You can listen to the d/l and see what you think of it.  I ran about 60(mics)/40(sbd) that night.  Good luck!

The map looks very similar to what I'll be dealing with tonight. Nice work BTW. I think I will try ORTF from the SBD area and see how that sounds. Thanks for the help.

[Kevin Straker]

test post, ignore

[mmmatt]

Guys....thanks for the help and +T's all around. It is definitely a small club and I'm sure it will be a mono mix. Unforunately I don't have a headphone amp so I don't know how much headphones would help me.
I was thinking possibly on stage, if so would a wide DIN or ORTF work for this as well? I just got my new cables and xlr's this week and have'nt put them together yet so I only have one set of cables Ubless I can get them together today. Again thanks for the suggestions.

I'm not an expert at matrix recordings but I believe if you run the mics on stage you may have some delay issues with the 2 inputs.

Besides, I'm not really sure why you would want to run on stage if you are doing a matrix anyway.  Like Tim said, with the mics in this situation you are basically trying to get some spaciousness and the feeling of "being there."  I don't really see why you wouldn't just run from near the board.

I mean, if you want to make an on-stage tape I'd say just do that and screw the sbd feed alltogether.

Just my .02

For the record this is actually incorrect... the delay issue comes when you are further away form the source (PA Speakers)  The stage micing will give you all the instruments on the stage and not the vox.  The sbd feed will give you all the vox and almost no instruments.  The exception to this rule is when you are taping a band that uses DI boxes instead of amps on stage.  The reason a sbd feed in a small club is all vocals is because the sound coming from the musicians amps on stage is already so loud, that the PA doesn't have to amplify them very much (if at all).  Going on stage will give you a more upfront sound (ESPECIALLY on the drums) and it is easyer to monitor... should even be posible with the puny little headphone amp on the ua5, if you have decent closed back headphones.  The trick to monitoring a matrix when micing on stage is to just blend the vox with the music, it is tougher when micing from the FOH because you are putting vox over vox, and adding the sound of the room (think sloppy booming bass... potentially).  I've done both and I highly recomend you go onstage if you can in a small club for a rock band.  If you go onstage ortf I would run the rolloff on your mics, or my preference onstage would be x/y.  As stated by bagtag it will tighten up the bass, and the rolloff shouldn't be needed.  Up close x/y has a spectacular image.  No matter what you do from the foh, you will get a lot of room, a lot of chitchat, and the only image you will get is in the ambiance.  On stage you will get a true stereo image of the instruments as they are located on the stage.
     FWIW I do a lot of matrix recordings, but I have never used my ua-5 for it.  I use a mixer but the technique will be the same.

Matt

[rustoleum]

I'm a  big fan of on-stage mics in a near-coincident pattern mixed with the board feed.  If you can get you mic cables into the snake - great... otherwise, be prepared to run mic cables back to the board by taping them to the ceiling, walls, etc... you don't want to cause an inconvenience for anyone there to enjoy the band by having your cables in the way or it could be the last matrix you run in that bar/club. 

good luck!

[hhf32]

Well...I'm back from the show and I did'nt get to run the matrix. The sound guy was pretty much clueless all night. I orginally was going to get a SBD feed off him but quickly realized he had no clue!! I ended up running a modified DIN. a little more than 17cm...more like 20cm. I'm soooo glad I did'nt take a feed off him tonight. He was all over the place all night!!
   One of the band members, who usually runs the board when they don't hire someone, had to help him out all night.
Oh well...I'll get to try a matrix someday. Thanks for all the help...and I'll be sure to use the advice next time.

[caymanreview]

I ended up running a modified DIN. a little more than 17cm...more like 20cm.

DIN is 20cm, DINa would be 17

[hhf32]

I ended up running a modified DIN. a little more than 17cm...more like 20cm.

DIN is 20cm, DINa would be 17

Right you are....probably more like 25cm