Topic: Forgive me for I am a noob and could use some advice from the experts

[cosmicchuck]

So I have decided that I would like to tape the countless shows I see.  This is mostly in part because I am sick and tired of not being able to relisten to a good amount of them because no one taped it.  I have searched around on this site and I still am lost as to what I should get for my first rig.  I would like to use a portable HD such as a jb3.  I also think the akg1000's sound like the right mics for my first.  So I guess my question is what preamps work well for this combination?  Could some one possibly give me a few examples of good starter rig?  What other things am I missing?  I know I will need a stand and cables as well(any info.  I will be taping in all types of rooms and probably from dif. locations(i.e. front orch, back orch, even balconies and maybe even onstage situations at the local pony).  I will also need to make sure that I can patch into a board as my buddies band plays quite often.  Keep in mind I am looking to keep this under a grand for now, but will find myself upgrading as I get more shows under my belt. 

thanks again for any input guys.  I am open to all suggestions and would love as much input as possible.  Sorry to waste any of your guys time, but if I am gonna be spending alot of money on this, then I wanna make sure that I am getting what I need.  I dont have the $$$ to try dif. things out.  I would like to see what has worked great for others and then expand upon it in my own way.  Thanks again for your time guys.

also: I do not fore see any reason for me to stealth.  I know people at most of the venues I go to.  And most of the bands I go see have a pretty open taping policy.  Thanks again

[John R]

you're not so much of a n00b to have a good idea of budget and planiing to stay within it   good call from raoulduke.  c1000>ua5>jb3=nice rig.  you'll of course have a little learing curve with the gain knobs and such.  also. learn to use the rig in the dark.

welcome

jr

[cosmicchuck]

thanks guys.  Glad to know I am on the right track here. 

so at the moment its seems like a pair of c1000's will cost around $300.  And a jb3 looks like around $150.  And I guess the UA-5 is gonna cost around $500.  Is it a common thing to see the modded UA-5 for sale used?

What is a good stand in your guys opinion?  And how much should I be expecting to pay for cables and a stand.

also, I will need to invest in a great pair of headphones, right?  any suggestions?

again tons of thanks.  maybe with a little hardcore saving I can get something together for one of the panic shows at RCMH.  Would be a great chance to experiment as I know a great tape will surfice shortly after the shows.

[bagtagsell]

that specific mod doesn't come up much.  I can't remember one at all off hand.  But you will see usually a wmod come up.  They get snatched up quickly.  I paid and sold mine for 425.  Thats not a big differance between a new one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7306400225&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
272 thats w/ shipping.  You can def get them under 300.

I like amvona stands on ebay.  They cost $23 w/ shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30080&item=3879062657&tc=photo

Make your own cables, or have someone around here make them.  Making your own $30.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=2401.0

Optical cable around $25 give or take
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=17087786&St=9784&St2=60527952&St3=71061739&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=118324&DID=7
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=17087786&St=9784&St2=60527952&St3=71061739&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=121287&DID=7
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1060

I'm not sure what the heaphones are for,  But check out Sennheiser(sp?) 580.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61333&item=5756568866&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Don't forget about power.  You will have to power all your gear.  Oade will try and sell you some batteries.  IMO radio shack does it cheaper.  And check out the jb3 powering thread
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=29230.0

[cosmicchuck]

so I dont need headphones for anything?  I assumed that I would need to hear what i am recording so it can be adjusted.  Am I wrong?  I have seen tapers with headphones/earpieces and just figured I would need a pair.

what if I buy a ua-5 stock?  Are there others out there other than oade that can perform the mod?(me and my pops could probably do it if I had it on paper to go step by step) I see a few on ebay for like 180-200. 

well I am gonna start looking into getting the mics and the jb3.  Is it possible to just go simple at first?  like c1000>jb3. 

again thanks guys.  I really appreciate it.  I just want to try to get something together quickly cuz I have like 7 shows coming up in april and would like to be able to mess around a little.

[cosmicchuck]

you guys all rock.

thanks for the wealth of information.

[bagtagsell]

the only mod I've seen done by someone else than doug, is the digi mod.  Its easy to do, small, but easy.  The didi mod sounds good.  If you have the money throw it into an oade mod ua5.

You can go to radio shack and buy enough connectors to run this, but I'm not sure if you'll get enough gain.  You can get xlr to 1/4, and then step 1/4 down to 1/8.  But this is not advisable even if there was enough gain around.

The differance between digi mod ua5 is well worth 200.  (big understatment). 

As far as headphones, I've never listened to my stuff in the field.  The only you can adjust is volume.  So all you do is watch the red "over" light on the ua5.  Its an art form.

[johnw]

The UA5 mod is pretty easy to do and I think it sounds great without the Oade mods. That being said, if I had a budget around $1000 I would do:

mics: Studio Projects C4 $319 new (some places free shipping) - gives omni and card, shocks and supposed to sound great

Preamp: Sound Devices MP2 $375-450 used, send back to factory for rechargable battery upgrade (+$50)
Another $40 for a bunch of rechargable AA's. I'd go with this over a UA5 because the meters on the JB3 and the UA5 suck and the JB3 AD path sounds pretty good, so an outboard AD converter isn't necessary. The mp-2 probably has the best meters for its price category.

JB3: $150-200 used/refurbished/new
2nd JB3 battery $50 new

Cables: $10-30 for a quality 1/8" stereo analog cable to go between the MP-2 and JB3

15' Canare Mini-Starquad with gold neutriks $30-60 depending on if you want right angles, have your own soldering tools, wire stripper, etc. I think 15 feet is a good lenth (should allow you to run mics at 12-13' and keep bulk down - esp with the mini-star quad). Alsoif you haven't soldered much, I think I would try to get Leegeddy to make a pair - they are great quality and he is very reasonable.

Stand: Bogen stand from B&H or APIC stand $60-100. You could get a cheaper stand on Ebay, but think about how much outdoor taping you will be doing compared to club/theater taping. Cheaper stands are often bigger. For me, I like a stand that is less than 24" all folded up and can be run with a narrow footprint so people don't trip over it in aisles. I don't think I have ever run higher than 10', so I definitely don't want to lug around a full size stand that can go 7' higher than I would ever run. Also if you order from B&H or APIC, you can make sure that you have all the adapters you need to mount a tbar or vert bar.

If you total all this up, it will be around $1100 and would cost less than a new C1000/Tmod UA5/JB3 setup. A cheaper option that also sounds good are the Superlux SMK-H8K set.

Optional:
Camera bag, Rakgear backpack or fanny pack: $20-50
Shure A51 vert bar: $50 used - the easiest way to run mics IMO
Shure or DPA windscreens - $60 for outdoor/windy taping
Clamp: $25-40 In case you want to run spread omnis.
If you want to add AD, you could always pick up a mod SBM1 for $4-500 later down the road.

[johnw]

you can find the c4's for $289 shipped, and these are the best mics in the <$500 price range.
get the modded ua-5, you will not be disappointed.  the t mod's don't come up used b/c no-one wants to get rid if them.

john does have some sound advice, but you want a rig pronto, and the mp2 may not come up used by the time you need it

I have been watching 2 MP2s on Ebay. One last week never got a bid for $400 plus a portabrace bag and is up again. They seem to come up pretty often on Ebay although sometimes at unrealistic prices ($650)

edit: looks like the one with the bag is gone as of this morning or last night. There is still one that starts at $350 with a BIN of 500.

[johnw]

you can find the c4's for $289 shipped, and these are the best mics in the <$500 price range.
get the modded ua-5, you will not be disappointed. the t mod's don't come up used b/c no-one wants to get rid if them.

john does have some sound advice, but you want a rig pronto, and the mp2 may not come up used by the time you need it

I have been watching 2 MP2s on Ebay. One last week never got a bid for $400 plus a portabrace bag and is up again. They seem to come up pretty often on Ebay although sometimes at unrealistic prices ($650)

for 100 more dollars he gets a much better a/d in the ua5 though.  night and day i think compared to running the jb3 a/d

Granted the AD is better, but I got fed up with not having any real meters on the UA5. I used a SVU-1, but at its last concert, the output dial got mysteriously turned down giving me a false indication of how hot I was running, causing me to clip a good portion of the 1st song. I think both have their merits, but I am a big fan of having levels. I'm not saying the MP2 is the best way to go, just that if I had to start over, that is what I would run. To each their own. 

[cosmicchuck]

again thanks guys

glad to know there are people out there willing to help out a complete stranger.  If any of you guys are ever gonna be at a show here at the NJ shore let me know.  I will extend any help I can.  Or if anyone needs a blocker I am like a brick wall at shows when people try to get past.

I am not too concerned with how quickly I can get going as I know most of the shows I will be seeing this spring will have at least 5-6 tapers at each show.  I am more concerned with putting together a real solid first rig that can handle me until I have the $$ to upgrade significantly(might be a few years).  

So what should I go with?  The UA-5 modded or the mp2?  I just found an mp2 on ebay for 350 but am really strapped for $$$ as I plan on putting this rig together over the next 2 months.  I might shoot for it but it woulda been better timing if it happened 2 weeks from now instead.  oh well

can the mp2 allow me to plug in mics and matrix in a sbd line at the same time?  That is a must for me as I am friends with a few local bands and will be able to patch into the board in most cases.  

again I cant say enough how thankful I am that you guys are being so helpful.  

[johnw]

can the mp2 allow me to plug in mics and matrix in a sbd line at the same time?  That is a must for me as I am friends with a few local bands and will be able to patch into the board in most cases. 

No matrixing with the MP2 without a mixer I don't think - you may be better off getting the UA5

[cosmicchuck]

so the UA-5 is what I need.  alright theres one piece decided upon. next

you guys all agree that the c4s are the best mics for <$500.  I have excellent hearing and usually find myself hearing alot of things that others can't in the high end and low end and tend to get pretty anal about it coming through on recordings.  Do these mics have a good range for highs and lows?  Are there maybe better mics I should go with that are a little more expensive but will totally be worth it.

I might just get the jb3 and the UA-5 from oade and shop around on mics.  I have a buddy who works for a studio and he might be able to loan me a pair of mics for shows until I save to buy a sweet pair.  I personally have found myself loving the way neumans 140s,150, and 89s pick up either end of the sonic spectrum.  I know those are top notch mics but that is what I am heading towards eventually.

thanks for the input

[johnw]

so the UA-5 is what I need.  alright theres one piece decided upon. next

you guys all agree that the c4s are the best mics for <$500.  I have excellent hearing and usually find myself hearing alot of things that others can't in the high end and low end and tend to get pretty anal about it coming through on recordings.  Do these mics have a good range for highs and lows?  Are there maybe better mics I should go with that are a little more expensive but will totally be worth it.

I might just get the jb3 and the UA-5 from oade and shop around on mics.  I have a buddy who works for a studio and he might be able to loan me a pair of mics for shows until I save to buy a sweet pair.  I personally have found myself loving the way neumans 140s,150, and 89s pick up either end of the sonic spectrum.  I know those are top notch mics but that is what I am heading towards eventually.

thanks for the input

If I were you, I'd listen to some C4 recordings before buying - esp. if you have sensitive ears. Are there better mics - absolutely - mics that sound better but fit in your budget - probably not. If you like the way Neumanns sound, you could get a used pair of km184s for $800-1000. The 140s, 150s or 89s are gonna be considerably more.

[Brian Skalinder]

Just gotta echo the C4s > digi-mod-UA5 > JB3 recommendation, great starter setup, IMO.

Don't bother with one of the more expensive UA5 mods until you have a chance to figure out what sound you like or don't like in your gear.  Once you figure out what you do / don't like with your gear, you can change accordingly - either mics or UA5 mod.  If you get the Oade digi-mod UA5, you can always send it back later for a warm / transparent / presence mod.

IMO, skip the MP2:  UA5 has a far better ADC than the JB3, I like the sound of the UA5 preamp better, you can get the UA5 modded to your taste after you figure out what sound you want, and the UA5 offers a far broader feature set.