Topic: R4 run times

[udovdh]

is it simply an issue of needing a more robust hard disc inside?  has anyone done any replacements / upgrades?

If it is truely caused by physical vibrations then you can test that by feeding (at home, via a line source) the device the same electrical signal levels as in the club (when taping). At home things should be OK.
A different HD could be a solution in that case. Only which one?

[Nick Graham]

My 2nd attempt was the exact opposite last night - absolutely perfect, and at as high (if not higher) dB levels than Saturday night.

I had the same problems this past weekend, "HDD Slow" errors at certain decibel levels. Last night I ran a disc check and format just prior to the show starting, and another disc check at setbreak. I was running Stereo X 1 at 24/96.

It is strange how so far both sleepypedro and myself are at 50% with this thing, while others have been error free. I'm hoping both mine and his bad experiences these last few days were one time only occurrences.

[bhtoque]

My 2nd attempt was the exact opposite last night - absolutely perfect, and at as high (if not higher) dB levels than Saturday night.

I had the same problems this past weekend, "HDD Slow" errors at certain decibel levels. Last night I ran a disc check and format just prior to the show starting, and another disc check at setbreak. I was running Stereo X 1 at 24/96.

It is strange how so far both sleepypedro and myself are at 50% with this thing, while others have been error free. I'm hoping both mine and his bad experiences these last few days were one time only occurrences.

This really sucks to hear. After a month of runing the shit out of Nick's, I figured these things were almost bulletproof. Maybe Edirol got a batch of bad drives. Have you tried running some disc utilities on the pc via usb? Not sure of disk doctor will work that way, but windows does see it as a regular external drive.

JAson

[Nick's Picks]

if possible...a 7200rpm drive might fix things.  but who knows how a different drive will react w/the firmware

[sleepypedro]

if possible...a 7200rpm drive might fix things.  but who knows how a different drive will react w/the firmware

anybody have experience cracking them open yet?  i haven't seen any pictures of the guts anywhere... i'm sure it'll be obvious what goes where provided we can get the case open, but then there's the question of the operating system.  is it actually booting off the hd?

[sleepypedro]

edirol is calling my scenario vibration-related.  so maybe bring a tshirt or some kind of buffer device to put under the r4 when you run it, folks

and HEY, it looks like i made FAQ entry #1 on the r4  :-)

i'm still going to test extensively, obviously, before i agree with their synopsis... but just wanted to let you know what i was hearing.  here's their reply:

--------------------------------------------------------------

hi -- i've owned the r4 for only a few days. last night during a recording session on a completely blank hard drive, having just been formatted prior to the session, i received the "HDD SLOW" error and the recording was ruined. i was recording 4 channels at 24/96. at that point i stopped the session, ran a disk check, and lowered the resolution to 24/48. i still continued to receive the "HDD SLOW" error message.

it only happened when the volume reached and held at a certain threshhold -- approximately all channels were reaching -3 dB or so on the level meter.

please have someone contact me about this as soon as possible -- if i can't use the product reliably at 24/96, i need to return it to the vendor or have it RMA'ed back to you.

my first session over the weekend was successful, but i only ran 2 channels at 24/96

thank you
peter w king
xxx-xxx-xxxx
sleepypedro@xxxx.com
 
Greetings,

The "HDD Slow" error appears when the R-4 cannot write to the drive fast enough. The most common causes of this are fragmentation of allocation units on the drive and/or physical vibration of the unit during the recording process. Before we schedule a warranty service of your R-4, please perform a test:

First, save any important files to your computer. Then, format the R-4's hard drive. Put the R-4 in a room free of vibration (such as an office or room in a house). Create a Stereo x 2 recording at 24/96 and start recording background sound (note: the level of audio being recorded has no effect on the quantity of data being written to the hard disk). The R-4 should record normally. If you get the HDD Slow error under these conditions, please call us during business hours at xxx-xxx-xxxx to schedule warranty service.

Best Regards,
Edirol Corporation
 

[Nick's Picks]

i'd have to agree w/Edirol on this.
it makes sense when you think about it.

everyone who has mentioned this problem always says it happens when a certain dB is reached.  now, we know that the higher volumes do not produce more I/O strain on the hdd.  So what does go up with ambient volume?  vibration!


what I do...and maybe this is why i've had such success w/this and prior w/my 5gb Toshiba PCMCIA drive based Fostex.
my gear bag...some custom Targus POS made for RadioShack...has an elastic band in the main compartment.  It is ment to strap down a laptop and keep it stationary.  I use it as a floating elastic belt that suspends the unit in the bag and keeps it on a loose "bungy" almost.   I'll take some pictures....

I never had trouble with my FR2, which was the king of crapping out under vibration stress.  and i've never had any trouble w/the R4 either.
and that sucker has been on stage with bands where it should puke if it was going to at all.  And fwiw, that has been both in and out of the bag.

I think the bag cost $20.

[Nick Graham]

i'd have to agree w/Edirol on this.
it makes sense when you think about it.

everyone who has mentioned this problem always says it happens when a certain dB is reached. now, we know that the higher volumes do not produce more I/O strain on the hdd. So what does go up with ambient volume? vibration!


what I do...and maybe this is why i've had such success w/this and prior w/my 5gb Toshiba PCMCIA drive based Fostex.
my gear bag...some custom Targus POS made for RadioShack...has an elastic band in the main compartment. It is ment to strap down a laptop and keep it stationary. I use it as a floating elastic belt that suspends the unit in the bag and keeps it on a loose "bungy" almost. I'll take some pictures....

I never had trouble with my FR2, which was the king of crapping out under vibration stress. and i've never had any trouble w/the R4 either.
and that sucker has been on stage with bands where it should puke if it was going to at all. And fwiw, that has been both in and out of the bag.

I think the bag cost $20.

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

[sleepypedro]

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit! 

[Nick Graham]

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit!

Hmmmm....that's an idea.

Time to google "industrial-grade gel pads"

[nickgregory]

I think the suspension idea that Nick mentions is a good one...the portabrace for the 722 acts on this principle..mainly due to the fact that the battery makes the unit oblong on one side, but it still suspends it and probably helps significantly with vibrations....just a thought

[udovdh]

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit! 

Pads under the unit!?   
Better would be a HD that's more resistant to some mild vibrations? (how do laptops work in such environments?)
Maybe some more buffering in RAM could help very temporarily?
Fix the problem at the source.
Maybe get a different HD in the unit?

[Nick's Picks]

here is the bag I mention.
radio shack !!

notice the elastic strap that I use to rest the gear on.  also leaves rooms for cables...should you have something that has rear connectors.
I used to run this w/my V3 and it worked very well for leaving cable / battery space underneath.

[Nick's Picks]

man...lots of "show crumbs" in there.

[sleepypedro]

hey, i forgot to mention that last night i performed the test that edirol wanted to run, basically recording 4 channels of silence, stereo x2, and seeing if in a totally still environment it would 'HDD SLOW'.  it did not.

i wanted to create a failure, so i tried shaking the thing as it recorded... certainly more vibrational stress than it was under during the performance the previous night.  still no failure...

i want to love this thing, i really do, but i won't if i can't rely on it 100%.