Topic: Tascam DV-RA1000 DVD Recorder Surprise

[MattH]

Good question on rack mounting. Must leave 1 rack space above this Tas. for venting since it has a lot of vents on the top side and does generate a good amount of heat. I use a 4 RU rack and mounted the Tas. in the middle 2 spaces. This leaves 1 space above for venting and 1 space below for power conditioner or rack mountable preamp. The new Neve pair would fit nicely!

I found the Kaces III 4 RU rack by Ace Products Group in San Rafael, CA to be the perfect rack sizewise. It also slides out of a soft carry case for use at a show or on top of my big rack at home. The soft carry case with rack inside is small enough for carry-on luggage and kinda looks like a small roller suitcase.

[Todd R]

Yep Brian, I was mainly kidding about a DSD V3.  I'd expect the hard-disk recorder V4 to come out before a DSD mod for a V3.  As I said in the V3 vs 722 thread, a straight up mod to the existing V3's seems highly unlikely.  But if DSD field recording ever takes off, it wouldn't be too hard to design a V3.5 that had DSD output.  The bulk of the main design, including use of the PCM1804 A/D converter chip, lends itself to a DSD output version, without any substantial re-design.  Nothing compared to a new design for a hard-disk recorder version of the Lunatec.

[Brian]

damon - DSD in general.  I think it's going to be a dead format within the next 10 years.  maybe sooner.  same with DVD-A.  And i base this all because the idea of a physcal format (CD, DVD....discs basically) will be dead as well.  Hell it's dying now.  Pretty soon I think everybody is gong to have their music on some sort small HD player that they will be able to plug into anywhere or just listen in headphones.  they will also be able to download music directly to it because of future advances in WiFi technology.  of course it's going to years before this is the norm but just look at what is happening now with the ipod/iphoto/ngage/sidekick phenomena.  

of course this is all in speculation at this point, but i beleive it will happen.  and i'm aware that i completely disregarded the argument of how it sounds.  I've heard great DSD recordings and I've heard bad.  The bad ones have this harsh characteristic above 8k that really fatigues my ears.  Researching into this i fouind that the 100kHz noise shaping of DSD plays a big part in this.

what about playback?  do you have a system that will represent all of those frequencies,  Do you have a player that can accurately read all of the information off of the DSD disc?  will your speakers accurately reproduce the info?  all questions and concerns one must answer before going full into DSD over DVD-A IMO.

[Todd R]

Given the fact that the seeming majority of Americans are perfectly happy with the sound quality of MP3's, I wouldn't be surprised if SACD and DVD-A died as consumer formats.  But DSD recording might well continue and thrive as an intermediate technology, used in the recording process.  Get rid of 1-inch analog tape, or whatever it is recording studios use, and record individual performers and instruments with DSD.  Then use the DSD tracks to develop the completed music "album" that is distributed as you say.

[Brian]

so how would you pitch the idea of converting to DSD recording to a recording studio?

can DSD be recorded to a hard drive making it easy to import into your favorite multitrack editor?

[Todd R]

so how would you pitch the idea of converting to DSD recording to a recording studio?

I wouldn't.  Not enough DSD technologies available at this point from what I can tell to try to get studios to change over.  But if companies like Tascam want to take the gamble that DSD will take off and want to start producing those technologies, it might happen.  I'm just saying I'm not willing to sound the death knell for DSD just yet, even if it seems unlikely that it will take off as a consumer technology.

[MattH]

Studios have and will continue to change over to DSD. With sonic Solutions you are recording to hard drive on the DAW. DSD already is the basis for SACD's which are being produced in the studio with DSD recorders.

I remember when most every commercially released CD was on DAT first. Not sure this is any different.

The fact that DSD walks all over PCM is enough of an indication to me where all this is headed.

BTW, my rack was $45 at Guitar Center and I just bought a 12 AH 12V from RS for $30. That should take care of my festival needs or long evenings with multiple bands.

[Brian]

Studios have and will continue to change over to DSD.

what is your basis for this statement? how many studios? which ones?

With sonic Solutions you are recording to hard drive on the DAW.

It's my understanding that Sonic Solutions is a mastering DAW.  I suppose studios are using it for multi-track recording and editing as well.  I'd like to know which studios are doing this.

DSD already is the basis for SACD's which are being produced in the studio with DSD recorders.

I'm aware that DSD is the basis for SACD's.  DVD-A's are outselling SACD's according to the latest research.  some record labels are holding back on SACD distribution of some albums.  Others are going forward with the process.  Teh best SACD's i've heard were ones that were recorded directly to 2 channel DSD from the master 2 track analog reel.  Essentially older recordings.  Newer recordings that were tracked in digital PCM and then recorded to DSD don't sound as good to me.  So score one there for DSD over PCM.  However how many multitrack DSD recorders are out there?  How many studios have them?  There are high costs involved with the process of DSD recording ~> mastering.  From what I've read, tons of studios are hesitant to make this leap.

I remember when most every commercially released CD was on DAT first. Not sure this is any different.

It's not.  But i wouldn't say "most every".  To this day 50% of albums are still recorded on ATR's.  So to say that "most every" commercial released CD was on DAT is a huge stretch.

The fact that DSD walks all over PCM is enough of an indication to me where all this is headed.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see

i'm really curious about the whole future of audio recording so discussions like this really intrigue me.  I'm not rying to put any of you off or anything.  I'm merely trying to increase my knowledge on the subject

[MattH]

DVD-A's are mostly 5.1 surround recordings at 24/96 resolution. While the format is capable of 24/192 resolution for 2 channel recordings, Im not aware of many, if any, 2 channel titles. SACD is strictly 2 channel stereo as I understand. They are not really comparable at the commercial level since they basically serve two different purposes. I may have no clue on this but this is my understanding anyway. Surround sound for audio seems to be popular right now but true audiophiles prefer higher resolution stereo recordings.

I'm not sure how many studios really use DSD multitracking. It does exist and there are some SACD's from DSD multitracks. But most still mix down analog to DSD for SACD production. But most seem to have DSD in some form now.

Didn't mean to stretch 50% to most every but it's still a lot. I remember reading that it was higher but you can't trust everything you read.

[Jammin72]

SACD is also intended for a multi-channel use scenario.

It's interesting that on some of the SACD's that I've heard that during the re-mastering process some of the egineers took liberty with the mix or mastering process and the results have indeed been worse than thier PCM counterparts... I've also heard some remastering (See Dark Side of the Moon SACD) that the PCM layer of the disc also has vast improvements to the the original due to the choices made by the egineers so it can be somewhat of a craps shoot.

It can be like CD in that regard in that we ARE  limited to what the engineers decide to give us... after all they do make machines that add distortion in the high end to make a recording have "That CD Sound".

[MattH]

Does DSD have various resolutions options like PCM or is it a fixed resolution? If fixed, then 5.1 DSD's/SACD's will require larger disc capacity like what's coming down the pike with HD video formats. Seems like the optical disc storage medium is here to stay for a while.

[MattH]

I'm using a 75 watt power inverter that fits in the palm of my hand and plugs directly into the car socket on the battery. I also have a 4 pin xlr > car socket cable for using my old 12V 7.2 AH battery. I think the better grades only matter for high power inverters in the 200-300 watt range. The Tas. only draws 35 watts.

[scb]

>>Does DSD have various resolutions options like PCM or is it a fixed resolution<<

it's all 1 bit 2.8mhz

[MattH]

I'm guessing the 12 AH battery will run the DV-RA1000 for 7-10 hours based on 90% efficiency of the inverter and that the battery says it will run TV's and VCR's for 20 hours, spotlights and fans 15 hours. With a preamp I'm hoping for 5 hours.

[VA_TAPER]

I talked to Chris Jones a while back, he runs an Apogee Trak2 powered off an inverter.  He told me if you use anything besides an Exeltech inverter, you risk damaging your equipment due to square wave issues and noise will enter the recording.  He's been doing this awhile so I'd give weight to his comments if you plan on running off 12v.

peace, chris