Topic: First recording - and it sucked

[Species]

I went to see Paradise Lost ("goth metal") last night in a small club. I thought the show was extremely loud, but obviously not illegaly loud. It was my first recording ever and I'm far from pleased with the result. I was pretty confident that my rig could handle all non-lethal SPL situations, but the bass is heavily distorted. The good thing is that there are some parts that are excellent. The sound is quite clear, there's a stereo image, and the audience is not too loud. Without the distortion the recording would have been stunning. The rig and I got some serious potential together - we just need to practise more.

So, what went wrong with the recording?

Stealth rig: SP-CMC-4 -> SP-SPSB-6 -> Edirol R-1
Position: Way back next to the mixing desk. Approximately 10 metres from the stage.

First I thought the levels were set too high but they were not. I checked them in Adobe Audition and they were in fact very low - around -20 dB. I sort of set the levels when the support act played, then I didn't touch them.

Was it because I set the bass roll-off to 107 Hz instead of 160 Hz or even 195 Hz?

Or is it the bleeding microphones? They are supposed to be able to handle 125 dB with the battery box, and it can't have been that loud.

I'm kind of disappointed cause I was planning on seeding this show today, and now I don't have anything worth sharing. Why did this happen and how do I avoid it in the future? My next recordings will be outdoor festivals - most likely less loud. And not metal. I'm not into metal - Paradise Lost is the exception. Are metal gigs louder in general?

Follow the links for samples. Flac (13,1 MB) and mp3 (2,8 MB). They're normalized - nothing else.
http://www.new-order.se/files/PL_ForeverAfter.flac
http://www.new-order.se/files/PL_ForeverAfter.mp3

Any advice appreciated!

[setboy]

from what i can remember
if you unmod you mics for phantom power it should fix it for the next show


Raphael

[~ Dan]

Yup, Phantom Power is the way to go with the SP-CMC-4's (AT853's), maybe after the mod you could try the Denecke PS-2, or there are also others.  Good luck!

[Chanher]

yeah the phantom mod definitely allows higher spl's (sound pressure levels) before distortion in those mics. I am certain that the mics were overloaded, and it is also possible that the preamp section in the R1 was overloaded. I have no idea if the preamp in the R1 can handle rock level sounds, maybe try searching here or at the www.oade.com boards, I'm sure the answer is around.

[jhirte]

I dont know the R1 and what it has for inputs, but I have a dumb question: were you running mic or line input? I assume it has both... might wanna try line for giggles... try cranking your stereo at home and seeing what happens..
-Jim

[Karl]

Actually, it was very likely louder than 125 db.  And your mics run by 9v battery power will distort in bass heavy/high spl situations.  Your best bet is to run phantom power.  And I've run 18v battery power before and it decreased distortion.

[Species]

Thanks guys!

Jhirte, I ran it line in. Before the show I tried it in my car with the stereo cranked up. The result was amazing. Absolutely stunning. The SPL at the show was of course not replicated in my car.

So, it's probably the mics that couldn't handle the SPL? I would have guessed that the mic specs were incorrect and that the 125 dB limit indicates where the mics explode and kill the taper - not where the distortion starts. But perhaps it was actually that loud, Karl. Are shows really that loud in general or is it mainly a metal thing? I'm worried that this rig turns out to be completely useless indoors.

I haven't considered phantom power. The phantom power makes it less stealthable and also much more expensive. I was sure this would be sufficient, and perhaps it is as long as I stay away from metal shows in small clubs.

The bass roll-off setting was okay and had nothing to do with it? 

Chanher, I really hope it's not the R-1's preamp. Haven't found any written words about it so far. Will keep looking.

In a few weeks I'll probably record some shows at an outdoor/indoor festival. Wish me luck... 

[Karl]

If you are wanting to keep it stealth and still handle monster spl's, then do 18v battery box power.  Just rig it so that you have two 9v's in series.

[Unitmonster]

FWIW, the PS-2 is a pretty tiny piece of gear, and will replace your battery box, so you won't need too much more space. Might need some adaptors coming out of the ps-2 though.  Never tried it without the AD-20 myself.  Good luck!

[pepper]

I wouldnt beat yourself up about it not being a great recording.I expect even the people that give advice on taping have had crap results at some time or another.True the bass is heavy but its not an unlistenable recording.

[Depechemode1993]

species,
 
     nice to see you hear dude. +T. my New Order NY show is coming!

[Species]

Karl, I'll probably try the 18 V thing. I remember you mentioned it in another thread. I'll read it again. Thanks. (I hope there are no side effects  )

Hi Ryan, nice to see you! Quite obvious what I'm practising for, innit? 

[Tim]

Actually, it was very likely louder than 125 db.

I'm calling bullshit on that

30 some feet from the stage and it was louder than 125db? No way...

sounds like brickwalling to me, your levels were low yet the recording was distorted. try line in and see what happens...

[Species]

That was line in, Tim.

[Tim]

damn, perhaps the specs are wrong on the mics? 125db is like a cannon going off... 115db is an extremely loud rock show, 125db is damn near the threshold of pain I believe