Topic: Newbie Needs Advice on Gear.

[DemBums]

Alrighty, so I goto alot of shows and I always try to get a recording if I can.  Now with the bigger shows I realize that there will be other people at this show with much better equipment then I can afford, and much more skill/expereience, so the gear I want to buy isn't going to be for big shows in large arenas.  I goto a lot of shows in tiny venues, mostly indie rock,hip hop, and electronica stuff.  These shows have someone taping maybe 5% of the time, if that, and it really bums me out when the show is great.  I should mention I will be stealthing at times as well.  So I've decided I want to get into taping. 

The thing is I have two large concerns: 1.) I don't want the recording process to take away from my eperience, 2.) I want to be able to wear all of my gear (if this is possible) in some way, shape, or form , and 3.) I want to keep this as cost effective as possible.

So I have been looking at the JB3, iRiver, and possibly the Edirol R-1.  Aside from that piece of equipment I'm not too sure what I should be going with.  I understand the main components I will need are the mics and a power source (preferably with some kind of bass roll off).

So I'm turning to you experienced people, and asking for any suggestions/advice on what to do, or what to get.  Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

1.) I don't want the recording process to take away from my eperience,

If you stealth you'll be dodging security, keeping yourself clear of drunks and talkers, having to manage your media and levels, not be able to dance, not be able to strike up a conversation with that hottie next to you, not leave for a piss in the middle of a set (tempered only by not being able to fetch a beer in the middle of a set), and theres more.

If you think all that will add rather than detract from your experience, then any of the small inexpensive mics with a battery box will allow you to pull a decent tape using one of those recorders you listed.  Search for "sound pro" and you should find a lot of info on one of your options.

Do you have a budget?

[DemBums]

Thanks alot!

Im trying to keep it as cost effective as possible.  The mics are what I really dont know much about.  Can I get something decent for 300 bucks or less?  What about the battery pack, how much do those run? 100?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Battery box should not be expensive and if you can solder you can make one yourself.  There are threads in here that describe several people's projects including schematics and suggested component values.   You should be able to score used mics and a battery box for less than your budget and new mics around your budget of $300.

If your budget is around $400 (assuming since you mentioned two figures above) you may be able to find some of the small DPAs for that amount on ebay.  Search here for "dpa" and "4060" and you'll find info including posts about getting good deals for used ones on ebay.  If you get those, you'll be upgrading other gear long before you need to upgrade those mics.  Then you can build a cheap battery box to get started. 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

The thing is I have two large concerns: 1.) I don't want the recording process to take away from my eperience, 2.) I want to be able to wear all of my gear (if this is possible) in some way, shape, or form , and 3.) I want to keep this as cost effective as possible.

This is impossible.  You are making a sound recording of the room.  If you move to the back and start tlaking to someone, you are now recording that sound.  If you move to the front of the stage and get blasted out, you are now recording that sound.  ANd if you go to the bathroom, I'm sure your peeing will be recorded.  So you have a choice, you can either record the show, or record your experience.

2)  If you want a good recording, you will not be able to move, dance, talk, or anything.  THat is because you are now acting as the microphone stand.  Ever hear of "panning" when sound goes from the right speaker to the left speaker when listening to music???  If you turn your head during the show, you will simulate this effect.  If you talk during the show, it will pick that up.  etc...etc...

3)  "Cost effective" is a relative term, you'll have to give us an idea of your budget.  What is "cost effective" for Paris Hilton is not the same for myself.


But to answer you questions, I think you should buy a JB3 and Giant Squid mics with battery box.  THis combo should run you about $500 after all accessories (cables, batteries, carrying case, etc.etc.) 

Terry

[DemBums]

This is impossible.  You are making a sound recording of the room.  If you move to the back and start tlaking to someone, you are now recording that sound.  If you move to the front of the stage and get blasted out, you are now recording that sound.  ANd if you go to the bathroom, I'm sure your peeing will be recorded.  So you have a choice, you can either record the show, or record your experience.

2)  If you want a good recording, you will not be able to move, dance, talk, or anything.  THat is because you are now acting as the microphone stand.  Ever hear of "panning" when sound goes from the right speaker to the left speaker when listening to music???  If you turn your head during the show, you will simulate this effect.  If you talk during the show, it will pick that up.  etc...etc...

3)  "Cost effective" is a relative term, you'll have to give us an idea of your budget.  What is "cost effective" for Paris Hilton is not the same for myself.


But to answer you questions, I think you should buy a JB3 and Giant Squid mics with battery box.  THis combo should run you about $500 after all accessories (cables, batteries, carrying case, etc.etc.) 

Terry

Thanks alot for the info.  I dont know if you saw it in my original post, but I'm looking to spend about 400 bucks on mics/battery box.  I already know the price of the JB3, and the misc other stuff isn't too much money.  My main concern is finding a pair of mics that suit my needs.  Ones that create decent quality sound, and can be used in both stealth and open taping situation.

Do any of you guys ever set the mic stand up and then take a few steps away to enjoy the show?  Im not talking about walking to the front, but just getting away from the stand a little.  Also, is recording in really small venues any different then recording in a wide open arena?  Almost all of the shows I'll record will be in tiny venues with nobody else taping, hence why I'll want to tape.  Thanks for any help!

[DemBums]

What do you guys think of something like this?  I understand if something has a lot of features built in, its probally not as good, but I figured id ask.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-5

[deadhoarse]

What do you guys think of something like this?  I understand if something has a lot of features built in, its probally not as good, but I figured id ask.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-5

Not a good idea. When taping you want to get the mics up as high as possible.  If stealthing, that means on your glasses or in a hat.  The only way I see this working is if you hold the device in the air the entire time, and I think this would "take away from your experience".  Also, having the mic so close to the recording device may result in the mic picking up sounds from the recorder.

[deadhoarse]

Also, read the forums a bit more.  There are others in the same situation as you right now.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42776.0

[Unitmonster]

if you're worried about having to be dead still, definately get omnidirectional mics, which will afford you a little more moving space before you get panning in your recording.  The more directional your mics are, the more still you have to be.

[DemBums]

Also, read the forums a bit more.  There are others in the same situation as you right now.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42776.0

Not to be an ass, but I made this thread a week before that thread was posted.  Thanks for all your help though, I really appreciate it.

[DemBums]

Has anybody ever tried recording into an RCA Lyra?  I couldnt find anything through the search about it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48686&item=5777556969&rd=1

[deadhoarse]

Also, read the forums a bit more.  There are others in the same situation as you right now.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42776.0

Not to be an ass, but I made this thread a week before that thread was posted.  Thanks for all your help though, I really appreciate it.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as "read the forums before you make a post".  It's just that in that thread there are some recommendations for gear that weren't in this one.

[deadhoarse]

When I started out, I used a Sony ECM-717 mic. It's a single-point cardioid microphone, with a built-in battery.  It yielded some pretty decent recordings, a friend of mine actually uses it quite a bit now. It was really easy to tape with...just clip it to the neck of your shirt and you're all set.

You should be able to find it for under 100 bucks.

[peterbilt]

I can only speak from my personal experience with them, but the sound pro's cmc4's (AT spinoffs of a sort) with the battery box was a wonderfull setup for small venues and not so loud bands. I primarily tape metal so I did run into saturation at times but at other times pulled very nice recordings. A bonus to them is the interchangable caps, omnis, cards, I think they even make a hyper cap for them. While they are not as small as the DPA's, they are good for what they are. You can pick up a pair with the battery box that has the roll-off options for wel within your price range (I sold mine to a kid in Switzerland for like 125 I think), so definitely check they yard sale occasionally.

You could also look into some of the modded Nakamichis, while the cap size is much larger than the DPA's or SP's or the At mics, they are still an option. Them and a small preamp/ ad converter and you would be good to go.

happy taping!