Edirol R4 review

[oniontaper]

first off +t nick

1. is it possible to throw a svu-1 or two in the mix to help w/ monitoring levels?
2. say i was running some LD's ORTF w/ spaced omni's, would this come out as two track's or one? do you have the option to merge and split, or does this all have to be done post?

[bhtoque]

first off +t nick

1. is it possible to throw a svu-1 or two in the mix to help w/ monitoring levels?
2. say i was running some LD's ORTF w/ spaced omni's, would this come out as two track's or one? do you have the option to merge and split, or does this all have to be done post?

It is possible, since the R-4 has rca outs, but would not be much help. Granted the R-4's meters are not as good as the 722's or the Deva's but they are not hard to use. After the first couple shows I did with it I was quite comfortable with them. Even got used to switching between channels without having to divert my focus from the music.

You need to set it to record as 2x stereo, and you get 2 sepperate files, as if you taped the same show with 2 different rigs. If you set it to mono, you would get 1 file with 4 mono tracks.

JAson

[wbrisette]

You need to set it to record as 2x stereo, and you get 2 sepperate files, as if you taped the same show with 2 different rigs. If you set it to mono, you would get 1 file with 4 mono tracks.

I'm assuming by placing the four mono tracks into a single file, it's building a broadcast wav file. Is that right?

If this is correct, then if you use a multi-track sound application, this is how you want to record the four channels. This way you have total control over each individual track in post.

Wayne

[Nick's Picks]

you guys got it.

the meters on the R4 are *very workable*.  no need to augment them at all. 

4 channel stuff...yea, you need a multi-channel application to open the broadcast .wav and then you can do whatever you need to do from there.

[wbrisette]

the meters on the R4 are *very workable*.  no need to augment them at all. 

I wasn't implying they weren't workable. Simply I wish there was a bit more room on the screen. That's a personal preference that's all.

Wayne

[Nick's Picks]

no, it was oniontaper who asked if the SUV-1 would be a good thing for it.  that was what I responding to.

[bhtoque]

the meters on the R4 are *very workable*.  no need to augment them at all. 

I wasn't implying they weren't workable. Simply I wish there was a bit more room on the screen. That's a personal preference that's all.

Wayne

Wayne, I think you should float me the Deva for a month, like Nick did with the R-4 that way I can really compare the displays and useability of both devices. 

JAson

[wbrisette]

Wayne, I think you should float me the Deva for a month, like Nick did with the R-4 that way I can really compare the displays and useability of both devices. 

Sure thing. I just require a 10K deposit. 


FYI, just got an email from one of the resellers. Apparently the price of both the Deva IV and Deva V is going up $1,000 in July. However, as he pointed out, it's really not that bad because now included in that price is a 80 GB hard drive. (yep, you spend 10K and don't get a hard drive to go in it).

Wayne

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

thats the only way i've been able to run it.
MIC in is too sensitive, and it will distort.  you have to run LINE in, which is just a switch per pair.  Its a 28db pad I believe.

might be a dumb question, but do you lose any quality or detail in your recording when a pad like this is running?  is the pad strictly for SPL's?  and what advantage does mic-in have over line-in, if any?

thanks.

By using a pad you lower the input signal strength, the pre-amp will then have to apply more gain to the signal, the signal to noise ratio would be a little worse running the pad.  Now if the signal is too strong for the mic input, the pre-amp shouldn't have to apply much gain, so the inherent noise would probably be very minimal.  Using a pad is the easy way out of actually creating a separate circuit for the line and mic inputs, even on the PCM-M1 the line input bypasses the pre-amp, the mic input is sent through the pre-amp.

Basically the line input on the Edirol is a mic input with a pad to achieve the same charactaristics as a line input.

[Nick Graham]

Quick question, as my R4 is at home waiting on me (just delivered by UPS 15 minutes ago!!!), and I wanna get a head start on some of this stuff.

When running all 4 channels (2 pairs of mics or 2 x mic/2 x board), what are your options? In other words, I know you can you have 2 totally seperate recordings, but can you do all 4 into a single mix - i.e. "on the fly" matrix? Is that where you run into the 4 channel BWF problems? When you convert a 4 channel BWF into a regular 2 channel WAV file, does to basically just mix both left/right channels into one left/right channel file?

Any help would be much appeciated. Granted, I could just wait a few hours and figure all this out my self, but thought I'd probe the minds of those who've already run one.

[wbrisette]

When running all 4 channels (2 pairs of mics or 2 x mic/2 x board), what are your options? In other words, I know you can you have 2 totally seperate recordings, but can you do all 4 into a single mix - i.e. "on the fly" matrix? Is that where you run into the 4 channel BWF problems? When you convert a 4 channel BWF into a regular 2 channel WAV file, does to basically just mix both left/right channels into one left/right channel file?

I don't the specifics of the R4. However, BWF is BWF. There are two versions a poly format (i.e. multiple tracks inside one file) and a mono format (i.e. one track per file). If you create a poly-BWF file, and your DAW software doesn't support it, you can download the BWF Manager software from Fostex <http://www.fostexdvd.net/fxdvd_route/docs/techsup/bwf_manager_1.htm> , which converts the poly file into individual tracks.

So how do you mix? That really is the $1000 dollar question. I have found there are no hard and fast rules to mixing. Over in the multi-track team board area, you'll see folks who prefer to run the board at 80-90% and only include 10-20% of the audience mics. Because I use a multi-track recorder and multi-track DAW software, I use the console and my ears to figure out what the mix is. I LIKE audience tapes. That said, I'm not in the 80-90% camp (except when I'm told to run that way by the folks who ask me to record).

My methodology for mixing is mix the mics (I know this doesn't really apply to the R4 since you'll only ever have 4 channels, but still this might come in handy) until they sound like I want the mix to sound. Slowly start bringing in the board mix until it truly starts adding or subtracting to the sound. If I've added too much, then I back off and keep playing with the mix until I get it where I want it. From there, I generate a two track stereo file that I can mark for a CD.

I would be very careful about how you blend your sources. Also make sure you keep copies of the original BWF file somewhere so if you end up with something you don't like, you can always go back and start over.

Welcome to the world of multi-track! You'll never go back.... 

Wayne

[johnw]

Will this thing fit into a Nova 5? The specs on the Nova5 say it is 8.5" tall and the specs on the R4 state it is 8.7" tall. I guess you could always remove the 1" pad on the bottom to make it work.

What bag are people using to hold this, mics, cables, etc?

[OFOTD]

Will this thing fit into a Nova 5? The specs on the Nova5 say it is 8.5" tall and the specs on the R4 state it is 8.7" tall. I guess you could always remove the 1" pad on the bottom to make it work.

What bag are people using to hold this, mics, cables, etc?

Don't forget though that you have at least an inch to an inch and a half extra height with the Nova 5 with the lid on.  The 8.5" measurement is with the bag open and flush against the top of the main wall of the bag.  I have taken out the bottom 1" of padding and kinda cut it up a little to sink my SLA's down in there.  Mostly it's down there to keep the bottom of the bag stiff as I just replace that cut out piece with a pice of cardboard from a FedEx box.  No sagging at all.

+T for the Nova 5  the bag just rocks!

[johnw]

Good to know. In a few months I think I may try to sell the MiniMe and JB3 to go to this. Looks like I could get the R4, pelican 1060, cables and shocks in a Nova 5 without too much hassle.  +T

[Nick Graham]

The R4 will fit in the Nova 5 height wise...it's sitting in mine right now

FWIW though, without right angle XLRs, you'll have to run the R4 outside of the bag, as it's not wide enough.