Best Stealth Mics / Best Standard Mics = Best Bargain

[Steelcorner27]

i use At- 853C's> Ps-2> JB3   works great and i recommend them

I see you like your mics..thats good that set did me well. I'd like to hear what you've been doing with them PM me maybe we can set up a trade.

Brad

[F.O.Bean]

ahhh yes the beauty of dsd,.... you gotta have the player to do it!
I could post a small sample of a dsd>analog>pcm file, and it will will sound fine, but its not the same as the master playback.

cant go DSD>PCM digitally thats a HUGE bummer

[leegeddy]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

+T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

[Steelcorner27]

 

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

Your scenario holds true and I guess If I didn't know ahead of time where my tickets would be located I wouldn't just bring a set of omnis with and the beauty of the 853 like my Audix's are that you can change caps, and for along time while I still owned my 853's I preached the same thing. so for many people who like to hang in the back by the soundboard (something I never quite understood) the dpa's arn't your mic, but for people like me who are rarly more than 30' away from the source they are,  I must say that from long distances as much as 160' away I pulled some very nice recordings with the 853's from that range the people standing next to you would be more clearly heard than the music using the omni's, but in the end I chose my Audix M1290's and then more recently the Audix ADX20d's over my 853's for all the reasons listed above and more. So I guees If you are unable to pre-select from a choice of mics ahead of time you best bring something that is versitle and for gods sake let some levels In!

Brad

[spyder9]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

+T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

The AT853Rx's Hypers are the schnizzle!   Those caps are clutch with 2 outs and runners on the bases, IMHO.      

[KingReptile]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

+T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

We will see Mark we will be side by side one day..That little preamp is the ticky for those 4061's clean as whistle...I have a 2 tapes to prove that from Charlotte My buddys At 853 against my 4061's...I do know which one sounds better lolllll...The only draw back on the 4061's is the crowd quiter shows and shitty venues.
Like Marc says tho for scenarios those AT 853s are nice for a good price.I have to say i like the Audix's hypers a lot ...
Are you gonna be around next wekend?? I was thinking about going to Savanah ?!!? I think you told me you were going to be out of town for bus..

Let Me Know

[johnw]

While the 4061s and 853s are both great stealth mics, lots of people have stealthed with the schoeps actives. Since you mentioned the 414s and 1000s in your post and might be interested in being able to run both a full size and stealth rig, you might want to consider holding off for the Peluso actives that are supposed to be coming out this fall. So far the Peluso mics are getting great reviews here and they would give you a lot of versatility for a price comparable to the 4061s. Just a thought.

[leegeddy]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

+T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

We will see Mark we will be side by side one day..That little preamp is the ticky for those 4061's clean as whistle...I have a 2 tapes to prove that from Charlotte My buddys At 853 against my 4061's...I do know which one sounds better lolllll...The only draw back on the 4061's is the crowd quiter shows and shitty venues.
Like Marc says tho for scenarios those AT 853s are nice for a good price.I have to say i like the Audix's hypers a lot ...
Are you gonna be around next wekend?? I was thinking about going to Savanah ?!!? I think you told me you were going to be out of town for bus..

Let Me Know

tom;

the dpa preamp isn't going to help one bit attenuating rooms like Grady Cole Center or Asheville Civic Center in Charlotte and Asheville, respectively.   it's all about the mics' performance in various situations. that's why i stick to the versatility of the AT853 set.

marc

[F.O.Bean]

406x vs,... pretty much anything else mentioned here
remember, you're comparing something that is nearly invisible in the open, as compared to mics that are at least 10x the size, and maybe even 20x times larger in some cases.

If a room sounds like crap, and is nothing more than a bloated artificially pumped pa system, is it really worth recording in? If I have to go beyond cardioid for directionality to make a room sound ok, I'm not very interested in recording there.

i do it for the music being played in those crappy venues and to have a representation of the evening, not to make the 'best tape ever'

have you lost touch w/ the music mok3 and are you recording just to record

[F.O.Bean]

nahh,... quite the opposite. finally after so amny years of recording big, I'm finally doing my best work small. I've never been so in love with recording live music. I've just scaled it down now to the intimate gatherings.
Loud music and loud audience don't do it for me anymore.

I've only lost touch with being amongst 10k + other people, and have fallen deeply for recording in instances where the crowd might be one person beyond my presence as a recordist.
It sort of makes you intolerant of even the littlest of annoyances, like little old ladies reading there programs during the performance. So trying to extract anything from a toilet bowl of sound (read: generic bad halls) really doesn't do anything for me anymore.

I can make the snottiest of 24bit snots seem like lightweights when it gets down to what I like to record anymore. Acoustic music will do that to you.

well, nothing wrong w/ that buddy!

i am getting a bit sick and tired of drunk midiots at shows too, hell, I drink my face off but dont get silly

i love being the only taper, and youre not only helping the musicians and audiences out there, you mostly get more respect shown towards you also, and i like respect

[Chrysler]

i use the dpa 4060s >mma6000>sbm-1>d100 and already started another thread about stealth mics recently. I got the same problems that were already mentioned here.
I love the DPAs for quite concerts with good acoustics in the room.
However if i get too close to the boxes with the mics or the sound in the location is very lound/boomy/bassy they suck ass.

Are Attenuator cables a desirable solution for calming such environments? Are there any other alternatives to the AK853s for stealthing purpose? I'd spend $1500 max for a better set of stealth mics.

[Chrysler]

sure, this won't help much like someone already mentioned in this thread before. I noticed this limitation of the DPA 4060s  just last week again when i taped a concert of Tori Amos.
In the beginning i was seated on the gallery quite far away from the stage. After a few songs i moved to the very front - right in front of the stage.

I adapted the recording level to a lower level - naturally it is louder in the front (the sound was excellent there too) . The Result is that the recoring on the gallery sounds very ok whereas the recording in front sounds really bad - way to bassy because i was so close to the speakers. The HPF was turned on all of the time. The 4060s are too sensitive for close stage recordings...i just don't want to buy a set of 4061 - maybe anyone can make a better suggestion on other mics or a solution how to attenuate the 4060s (i already use the soft boost grids).

And if possible please make suggestions very quickly because i want to record Sigur Ros in two weeks time and i am seated in row 2 there ...don't wanna mess this recording.

[leegeddy]

i use the dpa 4060s >mma6000>sbm-1>d100 and already started another thread about stealth mics recently. I got the same problems that were already mentioned here.
I love the DPAs for quite concerts with good acoustics in the room.
However if i get too close to the boxes with the mics or the sound in the location is very lound/boomy/bassy they suck ass.

Are Attenuator cables a desirable solution for calming such environments? Are there any other alternatives to the AK853s for stealthing purpose? I'd spend $1500 max for a better set of stealth mics.

attenuators have nothing to do with a mic's pickup. if you're recording with omni directional mics, you'll pickup sound sources from all around you especially in the lower frequency. (although higher frequency pickup gets directional as the freq. goes up.)

this is probably why you hear descriptive words like "boomy" and "bassy" for omni recordings.  in a somewhat of a controlled setting (ie., open taping with stands, j-disc, split mics, various mic configuration, etc), omni mics can and will shine. but, in a stealth situation you can not control many of the variables like position, mic height and configuration. imho, the best method to offset adverse situation is to have versatile mics with changeable capsules so you can run cardioid from ~40' or less and hypers from ~40' or more. 

again, i bring up the scenario of recording from the middle of an 12,000 seat arena. you can be 75' from the stage and run hypers and results would probably be very good to great. running omni mics from the same position will 99% guarantee you a very "boomy" sounding recording. you will probably hear bass echo bouncing off the back of the arena, which definitely adds to the boominess.

to the folks who run dpa406x mics, pls. don't take my opinions personally. i'm not knocking the dpa mics as bad mics. on the contrary, they are fine pieces of acoustical engineering. but, their versatility is very limited imo in a stealth environment in contrast to the AT853 line.

my $.0002

marc

[Brendan]

i have a white stripes show that the guys rig was DPA4061 > MPS6010 > PCM-M1 (as an A/D) > NJB3 and it sounds really really good... will my At853C's> Ps-2>Jb3 sound as good? i sure hope so

[shaggy]

I agree with all of you, of course!  I am with Moke on the basic nature of the music and venue.  In more intimate settings, the DPA really are an awesome mic....you can't beat them for their tonal and transparent characteristics.  I find I enjoy taping smaller stuff anyway b/c there will always be tapers at the big shows (and eventually torrented).  Besides, I can only handle standing in one place for so long...in-stores are the way to go for that stuff (and it is free).  That said, I have run AT853Rx in the omni, cardioid and hypercard flavors....kinda of kicking myself for selling them last year.  The one thing about those mics is they have a weird high frequency tonal characteristic....sometimes I find them tiring to listen to, it is just something I have noticed with them....it seems less pronounced on the omni and more so as the directionality of the capsule increases.  Also, since they need a phantom supply, they are less stealthy.  But, I have to agree with Marc, if you are in a arena....you gotta be in the sweet spot with the DPAs or you will end up with mud.  The ATs offer heaps more flexibility with sacrificies to transient response (detail) and tonal oddness....of course having a recording a little off in those catagories is nothing like ending up with a muddy tape made with DPAs.  But since taping smaller shows with the DPAs and doing more acoustic and world music with them....I have fallen in love all over again with them.  Sometimes the odd noises and claps make me turn my head (like I forget I am wearing headphones), that is a testament of the amazing transparency of these mics.  Of course, YMMV.