Topic: Microtrack Bug Report

[keepongoin]

i have no idea, but there are dropouts at 24/48  in the middle of an hour-long set.

[SClassical]

I haven't listened to my 24/48 recording pass 1 hr so I guess I should test this out. 24/96 via mic in is definitely not good with dane-elec CF cards.

Can anyone here tell me a reliable 4GB CF brand capable of recording 24/96 via mic/line in without problems?

[John Kelly]

My Sandisk records 24/96 just fine, although I haven't done a show with it yet (just testing).  24/48 over SPDIF has worked great on multiple occasions, though.

[jbraveman]

I got this from customer service today regarding the skips I had when recording on 24/96 to a microdrive:


-------snip
Is the microdrive you’re using 40x or above? If not, please get one that is.

Please let us know if you need further assistance.

Take Care,

LE

Technical Support

M-AUDIO

A part of Avid

ph: 626-633-9055

fax: 626-633 9060

techsupt@m-audio.com

 www.m-audio.com

-------snip

24/48 seems ok so far to the microdrive.

[John Kelly]

i did have issues with the cheaper sandisk 4GB cards (the ones with the 2GB partition switch) when i was using them in the 722 and R-1...this was when i switched to the Lexars

boogie

Heh, that's the one I'm having no problems with.

[plucks]

I finally got more responses from Maudio.  I submitted two items, email & once from the beta firmware support:
Here's what i got:

Phil,
Is your card at least 40x? This is the minimum requirement for the compact flash card to work.
Please let us know if you need further assistance.
Take Care,

LE
Technical Support
---
Problem:
Originally after 57:53 minutes of recording the unit would stop via SPDIF in. It seems the new firmware has fixed this so far, so that is good. What doesn\'t seem to be better is that there are little skips in the recordings. This occured first time out of the box & after the firmware update. For example, the skips are from a tv audio simpsons recording through microphones. The word \"Christmas\" is said, but on the recording it sounds like \"Ch.....as\" There is no real gap, but a skip when writing the file. I am using the Dane Elec 4GB compact flash card. Is this not a compatible item? Thanks Phil

and:

Hello, we apologize for the problems you are experiencing. The issues you refer to are known at this time, have been noted and will be addressed, if not by the Beta 1.1.5 firmware update now available on our website, then in upcoming firmware releases.
Thank you for the information, I will refer this to our driver developers. 
Unfortunately I am unable to suggest a workaround for your issues at the present time

A R
--------------------
Hello
I recently purchased the MT2496 and a 4GB Dane-Elec compact flash card. 
I have updated to the beta firmware too.
I am having a problem with the recordings:  there are little skips in the audio, but they are not gaps.  running a test recording of ambient noise, an example of this would be a word on the recording (from the simpsons tv show):  "Christmas" 
Only on the recording, it sounded like "Ch....as"   There was no drop out, but rather a seamless skip. 
This seemed to occur after around 30-45 minutes of recording time.  Unfortunatley this flaw basically renders this unit useless. 
I know of another user with the same problem who is using the Hitachi microdrive.
Is there a known problem of the writing of files?  Could this be a "buffer" issue?  Is Dane-Elec not compatible? 
I tried to call but i waited 45minutes on hold before i had to hang up. 
I appreciate your help on this.  I do have great expectations on this product so hopefully this will be an easy fix
THanks
Phil

[tightglobes]

i sent in an email to m-audio support yesterday about the levels being so hot & the lowest setting being marked at about a 15db gain.  here is the response i received today:

Hello, right now we are working on a firmware update that will address this issue. If you like, there is a beta version firmware revision available on our website, but it will not address all the issues that the full version addresses.

The firmware update for the MicroTrack can be found here:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers

Please let us know if you need further assistance.

Take Care,

LE

Technical Support
M-AUDIO
A part of Avid
ph: 626-633-9055
fax: 626-633 9060
techsupt@m-audio.com
www.m-audio.com

[plucks]

Good news!!!

The 45x Kingston 4GB flash card seems to be working like a charm
No skips/gaps found in the recording after 62 minutes of testing.  I would normally find them at around 35-40 until the end, so thats good news!!!

Bean..i think we are one step closer for you

[mikey10123]

Yay, I get to report another "wtf" moment with the MT.

It's been through 4 charge cycles since the last time I used it (and it was at half battery at the end of that session) and it was verified at full charge and powered off before I put it in my bag this afternoon.  4-5 hours later i pull it out at the show I'm to tape tonight, and the battery has a sliver of juice left in the meter.  Immediately I plug in my USB battery box and let it charge, but it completely ran out of juice within about half an hour.  USB box won't affect it, it won't boot, and I missed one of the better shows to come through here lately (Meshuggah) because of it.

Needless to say, I'm not real happy.

I know this issue's been mentioned up here before, the mysterious discharge of battery while the unit's off...has this been reported to M-Audio since the beta firmware came out, though?  Or should I do that?  [edit:  i bug reported it to them on principle]

I'm not sayin this is absolutely ridiculous...but jeez...I really thought I was going to be able to rely on this unit after taping 6-8 shows with it, but now I'm not so sure...

[it-goes-to-eleven]

the prevailing wisdom that multiple charge cycles gives you more time also seems to be a fallacy IME and its only gonna kill the li-ion battery sooner

I agree. From everything I have read, a lion degrades EACH charge-discharge cycle.   I think some are burning down their batteries with a bunch of needless cycling.  It isn't a NiCad and it isn't a an NiMH.  I'd like to see a document from an authoritative source that says otherwise.

When you buy a used lion laptop battery on ebay, the big question is "how many cycles". That's because each discharge-charge cycle brings the battery one cycle closer to end of life. Laptop batteries often keep count and you can get that info in windows.

[mikey10123]

probably goes without saying, but the hold switch is invaluable....esp when putting the device in a bag...its entirely possible that it got turned on while it was in there

i have not seen any spontaneous drain out with my MT

the prevailing wisdom that multiple charge cycles gives you more time also seems to be a fallacy IME and its only gonna kill the li-ion battery sooner

these USB battery boxes also seem to be flakey with 1.2V nimh batteries, but work fine with full 1.5V AA batteries (alkalines or lithiums)


boogie

I agree that it's possible it got turned on in my bag, but it's highly unlikely...I couldn't really afford the MT so I'm way, way anal/careful with it...In this instance it was in a loose bag, on top of the two battery boxes and facing LCD upwards, sitting on the desk.  It would have had to turn itself on, drain completely at idle in a few hours, and then turn itself off prior to me going to the show.

Also, as for the hold switch, I know you can still turn it off with the hold switch on if you hold power down long enough.  I wonder if it can still be turned on like that too.

I've only read of one other person that had this happen on here, and as I recall theirs was just sitting idle and powered off too, so I'm guessing it's either a fluke of operator error (still not ruling that one out here either) or some really nasty random bug.

As for the internal battery, thanks to you guys who responded...there's been some conflicting opinions, some feel that charging it when it's full won't hurt it, and some feel that charging it when it's full just wears it out... as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I know next to jack about batteries, but I really do appreciate the adivce.  I'll change my habits, and I'll only charge it until the battery icon says full when i boot it normally, if you guys think that might be wearing out the battery.

The USB battery box had 1.5v alkalines in it last night, brand new ones, and they didn't seem to have enough juice to really make a difference.  I used 1.5v lithium cells the other day and they worked great, I taped for over 4 hours and had half juice when I was done.  I had the battery box plugged in during taping and then used it to charge the unit a little between sets that day.

Thanks for the comments and advice for sure guys.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I doubt you can overcharge the battery.  Because, as a lithium, it would probably just explode 

[neutrino]

the prevailing wisdom that multiple charge cycles gives you more time also seems to be a fallacy IME and its only gonna kill the li-ion battery sooner

I agree. From everything I have read, a lion degrades EACH charge-discharge cycle.   I think some are burning down their batteries with a bunch of needless cycling.  It isn't a NiCad and it isn't a an NiMH.  I'd like to see a document from an authoritative source that says otherwise.

I don't think people are cycling their batteries as much as recharging to simply "top off" the charge. Yes, a lithium-ion battery will loose a percent of capacity after "X" amount of charges, but these losses in capacity come after full discharge and charge cycles, not simply topping off the battery to peak the charge. I've said it before, but I believe the biggest issue with the MT battery is the way the charging circuit is programmed in the firmware. Most high-level chargers have the ability to "peak charge" a battery several times to reach its full potential. Most low-level chargers are subject to "false peaking" and are not programmed to allow for a certain tolerance of false peaks and continue the charging cycle to maximize the batteries potential. I have yet to do so, but I am tempted to remove the battery cell from the MT and cycle charge the battery on my Triton battery charger, which would tell me what kind of capacity the battery has and would maximize the charge itself. It would be interesting to see what kind of run time I would get after one battery charge outside of the MT platform...
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[mikey10123]

the prevailing wisdom that multiple charge cycles gives you more time also seems to be a fallacy IME and its only gonna kill the li-ion battery sooner

I agree. From everything I have read, a lion degrades EACH charge-discharge cycle.   I think some are burning down their batteries with a bunch of needless cycling.  It isn't a NiCad and it isn't a an NiMH.  I'd like to see a document from an authoritative source that says otherwise.

I don't think people are cycling their batteries as much as recharging to simply "top off" the charge. Yes, a lithium-ion battery will loose a percent of capacity after "X" amount of charges, but these losses in capacity come after full discharge and charge cycles, not simply topping off the battery to peak the charge. I've said it before, but I believe the biggest issue with the MT battery is the way the charging circuit is programmed in the firmware. Most high-level chargers have the ability to "peak charge" a battery several times to reach its full potential. Most low-level chargers are subject to "false peaking" and are not programmed to allow for a certain tolerance of false peaks and continue the charging cycle to maximize the batteries potential. I have yet to do so, but I am tempted to remove the battery cell from the MT and cycle charge the battery on my Triton battery charger, which would tell me what kind of capacity the battery has and would maximize the charge itself. It would be interesting to see what kind of run time I would get after one battery charge outside of the MT platform...
dB-

That's a point of clarification I wanted to make also...I'm not talking about a full discharge, full charge cycle, what I'm talking about is letting the MT charge to full battery icon after normal use (ie, the icon has stopped doing the filling animation) then unplugging it so that it boots, turning it off, and plugging it back in.  This is only in an effort to actually fully charge the battery, and in all cases it will continue to charge for at least an hour, sometimes more.

So the general consensus is this specific activity isn't a bad thing and shouldn't hurt the battery?

[neutrino]

the prevailing wisdom that multiple charge cycles gives you more time also seems to be a fallacy IME and its only gonna kill the li-ion battery sooner

I agree. From everything I have read, a lion degrades EACH charge-discharge cycle.   I think some are burning down their batteries with a bunch of needless cycling.  It isn't a NiCad and it isn't a an NiMH.  I'd like to see a document from an authoritative source that says otherwise.

I don't think people are cycling their batteries as much as recharging to simply "top off" the charge. Yes, a lithium-ion battery will loose a percent of capacity after "X" amount of charges, but these losses in capacity come after full discharge and charge cycles, not simply topping off the battery to peak the charge. I've said it before, but I believe the biggest issue with the MT battery is the way the charging circuit is programmed in the firmware. Most high-level chargers have the ability to "peak charge" a battery several times to reach its full potential. Most low-level chargers are subject to "false peaking" and are not programmed to allow for a certain tolerance of false peaks and continue the charging cycle to maximize the batteries potential. I have yet to do so, but I am tempted to remove the battery cell from the MT and cycle charge the battery on my Triton battery charger, which would tell me what kind of capacity the battery has and would maximize the charge itself. It would be interesting to see what kind of run time I would get after one battery charge outside of the MT platform...
dB-

That's a point of clarification I wanted to make also...I'm not talking about a full discharge, full charge cycle, what I'm talking about is letting the MT charge to full battery icon after normal use (ie, the icon has stopped doing the filling animation) then unplugging it so that it boots, turning it off, and plugging it back in.  This is only in an effort to actually fully charge the battery, and in all cases it will continue to charge for at least an hour, sometimes more.

So the general consensus is this specific activity isn't a bad thing and shouldn't hurt the battery?

It won't hurt the battery, your simply taking a manual approach to peak charging which in better battery chargers would be controlled via software.
dB-