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Author Topic: dpa 4036 vs 4052?  (Read 6158 times)

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Offline scb

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dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« on: September 26, 2005, 03:06:17 PM »
does anyone now what sonic differences there are?  i know that the 4036 has the same capsule as the 4007, so it can handle higher spls than the 4052 (same capsule as the 4006), but do they sound different?

just curious...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 08:18:14 PM by scott brown »

Offline muj

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Re: dpa 40636 vs 4052?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2005, 04:46:41 PM »
well for starters they both are electret mics, and have a pre-polarized capsules.
the 4006 has different circuit board,and a capsule than the 4036.i have not had the chance to compare these mics, but from what i understand,the smaller 4007 capsule leans towards more "accuracy" (i belive it's a modified bk 4033 capsule ) , while the 4006 will also be "accurate" (it's all relative) but will pick up more lower frequency detail.

the josephson c617 with the gefell mk series, ( or bk capsules,g.r.a.s) murders both of these.

Offline scb

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Re: dpa 40636 vs 4052?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2005, 06:26:20 PM »
thanks for the info muj, but the josephson of course isn't as small as the dpa compacts...


what makes the josephson so good?
(i can't find any graphs on it)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 06:28:39 PM by scott brown »

Offline muj

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Re: dpa 40636 vs 4052?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2005, 07:03:40 PM »
thanks for the info muj, but the josephson of course isn't as small as the dpa compacts...


what makes the josephson so good?
(i can't find any graphs on it)

graphs are available at microtechgefell.de, bksv.com etc

i love the dynamic range, the practically undistorted sound, the ability to cut or boost frequencies at anyform of post-modifications. the big plus is you can use any type of measuremnt 200 volt capsule there is out there wheter it be b&k,G.r.a.s, aco pacific and gefell.


Offline scb

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2005, 08:18:45 PM »
thanks

Offline ghellquist

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 03:51:28 PM »
Well, to defend DPA a bit. I´m very much a fan of them.

DPA4006 started life inside Bruel & Kjaer, a well respected firm doing measurement equipment. Especially known for their measurement mics. According to the official story, which I believe to be mostly true, a devoted engineer tried to adapt their measurement mics to beeing used as recording mics. The problem they had to solve was the horrible phase response which you typically have in measurement mics. The 4006 took a lot of development in order to keep all the good things from the measurement mics, and remove all the things you do not want in a recording mic. (Phase response is not a problem in measurement mics, what you aim for is a very straight frequency response).

You can find older mics marked with B&K4006, this is the same mic as DPA was spun off from B&K a few years ago.

The 4007 has a smaller diameter mic capsule and a lower sensitivity. This is made by purpose to allow you to record stronger sources without distortion, and now we are talking things like inside a bass drum, an inch from the skin, or racing engines and things like that.

The 4006 is one of the rare class of established standard mics in classical recording, symfony orchestras and such. One of its few problems, or strenghts if you like, is that it has an output transformer. The 4003 solves this by not having a transformer, and additionally feeds the head amp in the mic with 130V DC to get some extra mileage out of the mic.

I own a pair of 4003 and a pair of 4007. For most usages they create very much the same sound, they are both really good omnis. The 4003 has the edge in going lower in frequencys and is THE standard for organ recordings. It also has the edge in lower self noise.

I have not actually used the compact versions of these mics, but I would expect them to sound very similar. You would probably be hard pressed to make out any difference. The smaller mic though has a bit higher self noise. There is one more difference as to the available accessoares. On the larger mic you can exchange the grid to change the acoustic sound a bit. There are currently three grids avaiable. You can also use the acoustic modifiers, balls, on that mic. On the smaller mic the grid is fixed and you cannot use any acoustic modifiers. This may be an important issue to you or not.

All-in-all, it is difficult to go wrong with either of the  DPA-s.

You might however want to look into the even smaller, you migh say tiny, 4061. Despite what it looks like and how it is sold, this is really a good general purpose omni mic. (You will need a microdot to XLR adapter). The small size is traded in with yet a bit more self noise. It depends on what you are planning to record if this makes any difference.

Gunnar

Offline muj

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2005, 04:02:32 PM »
hey gunnar didn't you recently go over to the east side of the wall..ugh i mean switch to GEFELL M296S?

can you compare these with 4003's?


peace ;D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2005, 04:09:15 PM by muj »

Offline SClassical

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2005, 10:58:10 PM »
There are many differences between these 2 mics.
Some of the differences are....

Sensitivity:
4052 = 30 mV/Pa
4036 = 8 mV/Pa

Equivalent noise level A-weighted:
4052 = 15 dB(A)
4036 = 24 dB(A)
 
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:
4052 = 135 dB
4036 = 144 dB

4052 is slightly different from 4006, too (even though they both use the same capsule). 4052 (30 mV/Pa) is more sensitive than 4006 (10 mV/Pa). Self-noise of both mics are more or less the same (15dB). I compared both DPA and Schoeps compact omnis a few months ago because I was planning to upgrade my 4060 mics. I ended up purchasing a pair of Schoeps CCM 2S. Great mics! If you are recording classical music look for mics with the lowest self-noise. What I am really curious about is comparing the quality of 4052 vs. CCM 2S. I record classical music so if anyone in this group uses 4052 in classical music please email me (scyue@hotmail.com) so we can exchange samples  ;D
Simon
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
Mixers/preamps: Sonosax SX-M32/Sonosax SX-M2 LS/Grace Design V3/DPA MMA6000/Millennia HV-32P
Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
Playback: Grace m903 - Sennheiser HD650 / Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus 805s

Offline muj

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 02:38:47 AM »
If you are recording classical music look for mics with the lowest self-noise.


the josephson mk102/c617 combo has a selfnoise of 10db,nice ;D ;D

Offline ghellquist

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2005, 02:27:53 PM »
hey gunnar didn't you recently go over to the east side of the wall..ugh i mean switch to GEFELL M296S?

can you compare these with 4003's?


peace ;D

Yep, I got a pair of M296 (without the S to be exact, these are actually a different mic).
Not had time for any comprehensive comparison. I find that both sound very good. The M296 has a bit more directivity in the high frequencys, the 4003 is a bit more "clear", sort of like really clear water. Both are in top drawer as far as quality goes.

On answer to another note:
If you want to have very low self noise, the Sennheiser MKH20 come in at 12 dB A-weighted.
If all you want is low noise, maybe you should look at the large diapragm mics, such as Neumann 103. These come in at 7dBA.

Gunnar

Offline SClassical

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2005, 02:51:59 PM »
Self noise of my CCM2S (same as MK2S) is 12 dB A-weighted, too.

I think 4052 might be better than 4006 because it is more sensitive (30 mV/Pa vs. 10 mV/Pa) and recording/playing back very soft music you do not need to increase the vol which will increase the hiss even though the self noise of 4052 and 4006 are the same (15 dB A-weighted).

CCM2S (MK2S cap) is more sensitive and has a lower self noise than 4006.

Simon ;D
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
Mixers/preamps: Sonosax SX-M32/Sonosax SX-M2 LS/Grace Design V3/DPA MMA6000/Millennia HV-32P
Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
Playback: Grace m903 - Sennheiser HD650 / Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus 805s

Offline SClassical

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Re: dpa 4036 vs 4052?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2005, 02:59:40 PM »

4036 is really for loud music/noises eg drums, trumpets, etc...  because it is less sensitive and has a higher Max. SPL, peak before clipping. If you recording soft music and need detail I think 4052 will be better if you are just comparing 4036 and 4052.
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
Mixers/preamps: Sonosax SX-M32/Sonosax SX-M2 LS/Grace Design V3/DPA MMA6000/Millennia HV-32P
Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
Playback: Grace m903 - Sennheiser HD650 / Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus 805s

 

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