Confused, can't decide what to get for a recording device.

[badsneakers]

I have been reading this board for  weeks now.  Even have a few post sunder my belt.  But there is so much information and I'm getting a headache : )
I originally was thinking about getting the MAudio MT but now I'm not sure.  The bugs might be a bit much for this newbie to deal with.

What I want for a recording device is an all in one box.  Seems everyone dreams of this.
What ever I get would be used for pretty much just my band and some friends bands.   I need something easy to set up before I have to hop on stage.  I would also prefer to not deal with a pre-amp just some nice mics and a box with good battery life, recording space, phantom power and a decent built in  pre amp.  Does something like this exist, even a mod that makes the stock pre sound good??  Something I would be happy with, without a separate pre but have the option to add on later

I am currently the high bidder on a pair of SP C4's but if I should have better mics in lu of a pre I can always sell them.  I planed on spending around $1000 to get started -$250 for the C4's I have another $750-800 to go. 

Sorry the post is so long.

I play loud heavy rock in small venues if that makes any difference.

any and all help is greatly appreciated.

thanks

-aarne

[F.O.Bean]

edirol ua5 and a nomad jb3 w/ some money left over OR

you can get a modded ua5>jb3 and that would run about the 750-800

if ya dont wanna deal a a pre and are set on that, I'd roll w/ PS-2(phatom power)>AD/20>Nomad JB3, thats an even cheaper option, maybe 600 max there

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I am currently the high bidder on a pair of SP C4's but if I should have better mics in lu of a pre I can always sell them.  I planed on spending around $1000 to get started -$250 for the C4's I have another $750-800 to go. 

Perhaps look into the Marantz PMD-660 with mods offered through Oade.   I have a PMD-671 (slightly larger and 24 bit), the 660 it only does 16 bit, but it does supply phantom, the A/D is decent.  You'd have to factor in the cost of a CF card as well, you can usually score a 4GB card for just under $200 or a 2GB for around $100 if you keep your eyes open to the Retail Section.

http://oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/images/PMD-660.jpg

For $750-800 you could probably score a decent pre and separate recorder, not as simple for setup.

Definitely keep re-sale value in mind if you plan on upgrading.

[badsneakers]

thanks a lot for the help.

what about th MAudio MT with out a pre, would it sound pretty good?

[bagtagsell]

I would second an ACM 660.

[Brian Skalinder]

Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5.  Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod.  Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman.  Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly.  Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496.  I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5.  Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod.  Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman.  Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly.  Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496.  I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.

If you don't mind giving a little bit in the way of convenience, very simple setup, it'd be a great way to go.   I'm sure once you've ran the setup a couple times you can probably have it ready to go fairly quickly.  For the $, you can't go wrong, plus the equipment is pretty good in the resale dept., but I'm guessing it'd keep you happy enough that you wouldn't want to upgrade all that soon.  The PMD-660 I suggested is simple, all-in-one, but if I were buying, separate components, you can't go wrong here.

[badsneakers]

I would second an ACM 660.

Is this machine as easy to use as the R1 seems to be from what I have read anyway?

with the acm 660 you don't have the option to add a pre down the road right? but the point is you don't realy need one because of the mods?  With the R1 to sound decent I would have to run a pre right?  I think I'm begining to understand all of this.

Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5.  Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod.  Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman.  Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly.  Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496.  I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.

I like that you think ahead.  But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good.  I'm use to taping shows with a mini disc and a horrible Sony stereo condenser mic so anything is going to sound like gold now.

That's what I'm thinking.

[badsneakers]

Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5.  Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod.  Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman.  Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly.  Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496.  I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.

If you don't mind giving a little bit in the way of convenience, very simple setup, it'd be a great way to go.   I'm sure once you've ran the setup a couple times you can probably have it ready to go fairly quickly.  For the $, you can't go wrong, plus the equipment is pretty good in the resale dept., but I'm guessing it'd keep you happy enough that you wouldn't want to upgrade all that soon.  The PMD-660 I suggested is simple, all-in-one, but if I were buying, separate components, you can't go wrong here.

I think we were both replying at the same time a few minutes ago. 


do you think the PMD-660 with the Oade ACM mod would sound about as good as the components suggested above?  I don't know that I would be looking to upgrade anytime soon. I do know that when I have a gig that between socializing and setting up my bass gear I want to deal with the least amount of recording gear as possible.  But still have a good recording and do some other shows if the mood should strike.

thanks a lot for everyone's help!!

[Brian Skalinder]

I like that you think ahead.  But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good.

The impact on sound quality from gear typically goes from biggest impact to least:

<1>  mics
<2>  preamp
<3>  ADC

At ~$300 for a UA5, + $150, or even a high $200 for a JB3, you're looking at a total of about $500 for pre/ADC/recorder.  That would allow you to take the difference between the 660 and the UA5/JB3 and apply it to better mics.  Not that the C4s aren't good mics, but since mics have the biggest impact on sound quality, it makes sense to spend as much as you can budget on mics.

As for simplicity, with the 660 you'll plug your mic cables directly into the 660.  For the UA5/JB3 combo, you'll plug your mic cables directly into the UA5, and then have one additional cable - an optical cable - running between the UA5 and JB3.

Edit to add:  At any rate, you'll likely be very pleased with either setup!  They're both quality pre/ADC/recorder options.

[badsneakers]

well I just got out bid on the C4's and I was at $240 I think. I figure I shouldn't go higher if I can buy new for $300. 

As luck would have it I just hit $500 on a scratch ticket. 

So better mics could be in my future

I just don't know what.  The Schoeps MSTC 64U seem like an interesting set up from the oade site.  Have no idea what they cost though.

lol...just found them listed on another site for  $2,879.00
next!

ehhh...

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I like that you think ahead.  But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good.

The impact on sound quality from gear typically goes from biggest impact to least:

<1>  mics
<2>  preamp
<3>  ADC

At ~$300 for a UA5, + $150, or even a high $200 for a JB3, you're looking at a total of about $500 for pre/ADC/recorder.  That would allow you to take the difference between the 660 and the UA5/JB3 and apply it to better mics.  Not that the C4s aren't good mics, but since mics have the biggest impact on sound quality, it makes sense to spend as much as you can budget on mics.

As for simplicity, with the 660 you'll plug your mic cables directly into the 660.  For the UA5/JB3 combo, you'll plug your mic cables directly into the UA5, and then have one additional cable - an optical cable - running between the UA5 and JB3.

Edit to add:  At any rate, you'll likely be very pleased with either setup!  They're both quality pre/ADC/recorder options.

660 setup = cake setup, but also factor in CF flash memory, it might end up costing 2X as much as the UA-5>JB3.

UA5/JB3 combo you have the optical cable to run (as well as a battery for the UA-5 correct me if I'm wrong)

With the JB3 you'll have longer record times (at least 5X the 660 that uses compact flash = extra $)

What would a UA-5>MT2496 combo w/ CF memory run?  In comparison to the modded 660?

[Brian Skalinder]

UA5/JB3 combo you have the optical cable to run (as well as a battery for the UA-5 correct me if I'm wrong)

No, you're correct - I forgot about the battery cable.

What would a UA-5>MT2496 combo w/ CF memory run?  In comparison to the modded 660?

Digi-mod UA5, let's assume a high price of $300.  Add the MT2496 at $300.  And a 4GB CF for another $200.  Total of around $800.

IMO, don't go with a 24-bit solution today, if your playback system won't accommodate it.  But...that doesn't mean one shouldn't prepare for the future.

Sneakers - what's your overall budget for mics + preamp + ADC + recorder?  Is it still the $1,000 initially stated, or is it now up to $1,500 or somewhere in between based on your winnings?

If still $1,000, UA5/JB3 at $500 still leaves $500 for mics.  The Peluso's fall about in that range, I think, with a single set of caps.  Or AKG 39x.  If your budget's up to $1,500, that leaves ~$1,000 after the UA5/JB3 for mics, getting you into something like MG M300s, Neumann KM184s, AKG 480s, MBHO 603s, etc.  All very good mics.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

If still $1,000, UA5/JB3 at $500 still leaves $500 for mics.  The Peluso's fall about in that range, I think, with a single set of caps.  Or AKG 39x.  If your budget's up to $1,500, that leaves ~$1,000 after the UA5/JB3 for mics, getting you into something like MG M300s, Neumann KM184s, AKG 480s, MBHO 603s, etc.  All very good mics.

AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. 
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0

[Brian Skalinder]

AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0

Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!?  Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.