levels on d8 question?

[SparkE!]

yeah, Dave, I never get that over message when I know I'm clipping.  Usually try to run mine at around -6db.  Gives me a little room to avoid clipping when it gets really loud.

ugh...at -6db you're losing *half* your resolution

You're only losing 1 bit of resolution, leaving 15 bits.  You can still approach 90 dB S/N with that.

1 Bit == 32768 possible values...still think it's insignificant?

At 24 bits, 1 bit is 8,388,608 possible values.  It's still a 6 dB degradation on the maximum possible S/N.

Mathematically, losing one bit of resolution is losing half of your possible values, no matter how many bits you start out with.  The question is can you tell the difference between 15 and 16 bits of resolution?  Most people can't.  On the other hand, when you set the gain too high and you need 17 bits rather than 16, you can EASILY hear that.  Setting the gain 6 dB low to avoid clipping in my opinion is a very reasonable tradeoff to make.  When I do that, I give up 6 dB of S/N that I can't easily hear in order to avoid clipping that I definitely CAN hear.

[ethan]

To each his own

To my ears recordings made with peaks in the 0-1 db range sound clearer with more dynamic contrast. Tapes made at too low levels sound muddy and not defined.

So at what point do you hear clips? 3 samples (.06 milliseconds) ? 10 samples (.22 milliseconds)  22 samples ( .5 milliseconds) ?

I maintain that 3-10 sample clips are negligible and are worth the extra clarity you get at nominal levels.

-e

[SparkE!]

To my ears recordings made with peaks in the 0-1 db range sound clearer with more dynamic contrast. Tapes made at too low levels sound muddy and not defined.

-e

Agreed.  It's great to be able to record with peaks in the -1 to 0 dB range.  You can do that if you know that the soundman will leave the levels alone once they're set. In fact, that's what I strive for when I'm in a familiar venue with a good soundman. It's just a matter of being sufficiently familiar with your recording environment.

The first time at a venue, I'll err to the low side on levels, though, in case they have a soundman that can't seem to quit turning up the levels.  They usually won't go up by more than 6 dB at a time, so my 6 dB margin is usually enough to keep from spoiling a recording by clipping.

[stirinthesauce]

To my ears recordings made with peaks in the 0-1 db range sound clearer with more dynamic contrast. Tapes made at too low levels sound muddy and not defined.

-e

Agreed.  It's great to be able to record with peaks in the -1 to 0 dB range.  You can do that if you know that the soundman will leave the levels alone once they're set. In fact, that's what I strive for when I'm in a familiar venue with a good soundman. It's just a matter of being sufficiently familiar with your recording environment.

The first time at a venue, I'll err to the low side on levels, though, in case they have a soundman that can't seem to quit turning up the levels.  They usually won't go up by more than 6 dB at a time, so my 6 dB margin is usually enough to keep from spoiling a recording by clipping.

Nicely put.  My reasoning exactly on my previous statement.  I think the original question was referring to reading levels on a d8, which, IMO, is not exactly the easiest.  A lot easier, at least for me, to *dial in* on the -1 to 0db range when I'm viewing levels via wavelab on my laptop in a venue where I know what to expect.  Maybe I should get a SVU and I wouldn't have this problem (or glasses)   Anyways, great discussion on the tech info with bit resolution and s/n.  Learned something new, +t's!

[ashevillain]

Do you know you are adding gain with both of those boxes? just checkin...