One mic, two mics

[3gendmb]

well, im interested in taping a local bands concert. I dont want to get real serious into taping, but i do want my recording to come out clean. I was wondering difference does it make if you record the show with one mic or with a pair.

[Krispy D]

uhh,  yeah.

one *stereo* mic maybe.  but you will not be happy with a mono recoding.

the search function is your friend.  start here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=46.0

[3gendmb]

so for two mics what do i aim them at... also, i could use some recomendations on some mics that will produce some good quality recordings without having to spend a fortune.

[bconnolly]

so for two mics what do i aim them at... also, i could use some recomendations on some mics that will produce some good quality recordings without having to spend a fortune.

There is an entire sub-forum in the Archive for the Microphones and Setup.  Also, some stickied threads in this forum will help you out as will the "Getting Started" forum.

[JasonR]

Do some reading around here, and if you have the scratch, consider picking up a copy of the New Stereo Soundbook.  It's a bit pricy, but a very good education on stereo sound concepts and techniques.

You've come to the right place though.  I've seen a LOT of people running a pair of expensive mics (sometimes incredibly so) side by side with no included angle at all.  Unless they want a mono recording and run a second mic as a backup to the first, then I just don't know what they're doing.  Or, should I say, they don't know what they're doing.

- Jason

[JasonR]

<snip>

... I've seen a LOT of people running a pair of expensive mics (sometimes incredibly so) side by side with no included angle at all.  Unless they want a mono recording and run a second mic as a backup to the first, then I just don't know what they're doing.  Or, should I say, they don't know what they're doing.

- Jason

That would be your stereo A-B pattern.  Depending on the capsule and the separation and placement, it can yeild a stereo image.  All depends on the variables.  I've never run that way and haven't dug into it, but it's not unheard of.

Well, when I wrote "side by side" I really mean exactly that... like within a few inches of one another at most.  The first (and most ridiculous) time I saw was at Irving Plaza a few years back someone was running a set of Schoeps tubes with card caps this way.  Seems like a big waste when he'd get nearly identical results for half the money... or far better by listening to some friendly advice about reading up on stereo methods.

A-B stereo works because the mics are separated by a significant distance.  You need separation between the mics or an included angle (or a combination of them) to achieve a stereo image with a pair of omnis or directional mics (subcard, card, hyper/super, even figure-8).  With neither, you've just got redundancy... not stereo.

- Jason

[F.O.Bean]

or, if you get a decent mic, just 'trick' it into being stereo, by running tyhe mono end into a mon>stereo adaptrer from your local radio shack

2 mics are the real deal tho, but thats how i started some 9-10 years ago

[poppag76]

I suggest the single point stereo mic.  They are cheap and pretty effective.  Look here:

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/default.asp?source=TTAPES

[Brian Skalinder]

or, if you get a decent mic, just 'trick' it into being stereo, by running tyhe mono end into a mon>stereo adaptrer from your local radio shack

Dual mono != stereo.

[baustin]

Do some reading around here, and if you have the scratch, consider picking up a copy of the New Stereo Soundbook.  It's a bit pricy, but a very good education on stereo sound concepts and techniques.
- Jason

Great book. I keep it in the "office" to look at when I go to do my "business". Would defintiely recommend it.

-B

[guysonic]

I agree with at least using two mics (suggest spaced omni HRTF baffled mic configuration).

Here's a live sound recording tips page many find quite useful.  With links to samples, gear, and discussion FAQ of various live sound mic'g methods: www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm

[NJFunk]

I suggest the single point stereo mic.  They are cheap and pretty effective.  Look here:

http://www.american-digital.com/prodsite/default.asp?source=TTAPES

I second that.  I started with an Audio Technica 822 that I bought at Guitar Center.  Decent quality stereo mic and totally brainless to use.

[Jhurlbs81]

I agree Jason, you need some angle or space to yeild a decent stereo image.  Not to say you Jason, but people who get out the protractor and ruler to make a perfect ORTF DIN etc really bother me.   Here they are in a shitty club 15' off center, a giant pole directly to the left..(not to mention the horrible sound guy!) you get my point.  Sometimes you need to improvise.  I don't always run "accepted" patterns.  In an ideal location, true patterns are best and yield the most accurate imagine, I understand, but a lot of times when I don't have a choice where I am I run hypers and just aim them at the outside of the stacks.  my .02

Sorry for the rant.

[RebelRebel]

tell it like it is. I dont really see the point of strict patterns either, in a lot of PA taping situations.
I also found that listening to pa tapes ive made , the fact of them being 24 bit only enhanced the reasons that I dont like some PA taping to begin with. 16 bit, PAS I can see that in an onstage or acoustic type situation  adhering to placement conventions would make a pretty big  difference
but from what ive heard and the little that I have learned, the music is so processed, filtered, baffled, drugged, smoked, blasted through 100 dollar PA speakers , rode hard and put away wet.......how would strict techniques make much of a difference???acoustic is where its at..or stage lip. 

I agree Jason, you need some angle or space to yeild a decent stereo image.  Not to say you Jason, but people who get out the protractor and ruler to make a perfect ORTF DIN etc really bother me.   Here they are in a shitty club 15' off center, a giant pole directly to the left..(not to mention the horrible sound guy!) you get my point.  Sometimes you need to improvise.  I don't always run "accepted" patterns.  In an ideal location, true patterns are best and yield the most accurate imagine, I understand, but a lot of times when I don't have a choice where I am I run hypers and just aim them at the outside of the stacks.  my .02

Sorry for the rant.

[Shawn]

3gendmb - If you are interested in picking up an AT822 (the mic mentioned in this thread) please let me know. I'll be selling one used really soon, and I'd give you a good price. It's less than a month old and it's only been used a couple of times. Send me a PM if you are interested.