Topic: Can mic'ing stage amps up close cause damage?

[cyfan]

I've got a pair of Superlux HK8's with card caps and was considering using them to mic two guitar amps on stage (say, 1 foot away). Any possibility that would damage them?

Application: small venue where the bass and guitar amps won't be mic'ed for the house PA. Capturing vox and drums through board and mixing with my own mics on stage.
Not a good arrangement for stage lip, and I've been unhappy with straight mic recordings from farther away in this awkward venue.

[Patrick]

no, it won't cause damage, that I know of. I could be very wrong, though, and I usually am. 

And that's a really good idea, btw.  I have plenty of venues that never produce good board tapes, yet never sound good when audience taped.  That could definitely useful to balance everything out and then run a straight board feed.

 

[cyfan]

Yup. The board will pick up the vocalist and his acoustic guitar (direct box) and the drums. I'm just hoping to run another recording with the bass and lead guitar amps mic'ed, then mix them post. I've run too many straight mic recordings at this place that turned out for crap, that I'll try this. If it doesn't work, nothing lost.
I just don't want to screw up the mics by putting them so close to loud sources, if that's possible.

[bluegrass_brad]

You'll be good to go.  Those condensors wont be harmed at all.  Just get there for soundcheck if possible to make sure nothing is gonna overload (mic/pre). That wont hurt them but it will sound like crap if it happens.

[heath]

shoulnd't be a probloem.  I've close mic'd screaming guitar cabs with U87's and had spectacular results.  You should be just fine.

[plucks]

no shouldn't
your mics have a max SPL of 134dB so i doubt you will ever get close to that.

& your low end only goes down to 50Hz, so you shouldnt get those overloading peaks from the real low end freq's.

[cyfan]

& your low end only goes down to 50Hz, so you shouldnt get those overloading peaks from the real low end freq's.

Yeah. One of the downsides to the superlux's is the lack of low end.
Thanks all for the advice.
Now I need to track me down a second mic stand and I'm good to go.

[bluegrass_brad]

Actually that lack of low end is a good thing if your close micing, it will cut down on proximity effect.

[Roving Sign]

How many mics are being used on the drum kit?

You may not really need to mic the guitars that closely...3 ft away from each would be plenty tight, and give the sound a chance to get out of the speaker and mix with the room...point the mics toward the guitars and away from the drums...

[cyfan]

How many mics are being used on the drum kit?

You may not really need to mic the guitars that closely...3 ft away from each would be plenty tight, and give the sound a chance to get out of the speaker and mix with the room...point the mics toward the guitars and away from the drums...

Usually two mics on the drums at this place with this band. I've snagged boards there before and the drums and vocals are generally fine. It's a small stage too, so three feet out would get smashed by the players...but I'll keep them as far away as possible, still outta the way.

[bluegrass_brad]

One thing about moving them further out is that you may start to have phase issues.

[NJFunk]

Actually that lack of low end is a good thing if your close micing, it will cut down on proximity effect.

Exactly.  To take this one step further, if your mics have bass rolloff, use it for the mic on the guitar amp (I don't know anything about 'Luxes, so I don't know if it does).

[bluegrass_brad]

Actually that lack of low end is a good thing if your close micing, it will cut down on proximity effect.

Exactly.  To take this one step further, if your mics have bass rolloff, use it for the mic on the guitar amp (I don't know anything about 'Luxes, so I don't know if it does).

Do you think it would still need a rolloff?  The bass response on his 'luxes end at 50hz. 

[cyfan]

No bass rolloff on the Luxes' and from my experience using them on over 150 shows, none is necessary ... ever.
There's another possibility at the club, depending on which sound guy shows, but he may have a couple spare mics to "double mic" the two guitar amps and just plug in my XLRs from the UA-5.

tim

[JasonSobel]

they only go to 50hz,....

and you run out of hearing at 38=>40hz, so there really isn't much lacking there.
The 4022's only go to 40hz, so you really aren't lacking all that much.
A nice eq boost for a fat lucious bass is around 110hz->140hz, so you still have plenty to work with, or be aware of.

This brings up an interesting point about how manufacturers publish mic specs.  the specs usually look something like 40Hz-20kHz +/- 2dB or whatever.  just because the low end is 40Hz, doesn't mean that it stops on a dime right at 40Hz.  I'm sure the mics pick up lower frequencies, but the frequency repsonse curve begins to roll-off more steeply.  to use the DPA's as an example, DPA prides itself on "ruler flat" frequency response across the board.  from a marketing perspective, they prefer to publish 40-20k +/-2dB, instead of 20-20k +/-6 or 8dB or whatever it actually is.  Other companies (neumann, schoeps, etc, etc), prefer to publish their specs as 20Hz to 20kHz, but they don't list a +/- immediately afterwards.  if you look at the chart for the km140's, the mics are down quite a bit at 20Hz (-8 or -10dB, offhand, I'm not sure).

Anyway, the point is, just because the Superlux mics say that they only go down to 50Hz, it's likely that they go further, but that the roll-off is considerable once you get that low.  You may want to keep this in mind when deciding whether or not to use additional Bass roll off.