Who's got the high-end surround gear?

[mmmatt]

Hey all you audiophiles!  I had a friend who shot some video at a radiators show in may contact me about providing 5.1 surround sound for his video.  I was set up recording what should be a pretty ideal scenario for it.  I've got it all mixed, but the problem is that I only have a pro-logic receiver and can't really test it out.  I'm more of a 2 chan guy when it comes down to it, and honestly don't have the rear and center speakers to really do the prologic well.
     If someone has a nice 5.1 system and is willing to give this recording a test drive for me before I send it off to him  it would be really cool.  I can burn it or upload the files to tapers.org for your listening pleasure!
    This was an outdoor show (the big wu family reunion) and I ran a 2 chan sbd + sm81's on stage corners facing the audience + studio projects c-1's x/y center stage + mbho omni's (LK) split 15' at the foh tent about 100' back > v2 all of this went into my mackie onyx firewire multi rig at 24/44.1
     The front channels are basically my full 2chan mix of all with the bass rolled off at 100 hz, the rear is mostly omni's with some sbd and the roll off, the center is straight sbd with the roll off, and the sub channel is straight sbd with a 100hz low pass.
     This is a rather uneducated shot at a surround mix but I'd love to know if it worked.  Please post if you can help me out!

matt

[jhirte]

I'd like to hear it - been debating 5.1 for concert DVDs..

playback:

Sony 3000es, Pioneer 563a DVD, Definitive Technology 7004 mains, CLR2500 center, BPX1.2 surrounds.

[pfife]

so, you did get the 7004s?  Are you loving them?

[jhirte]

so, you did get the 7004s?  Are you loving them?

Got them Tuesday!

Love them!!!

Don't like the fact I can't plug in the subs until after the 3000es is on though (error 21). I need to get a hold of Sony and see whats up with this..

[pfife]

+T for new toys!  Sorry, no advice on the Sony, I've never even seen one.  That sounds really strange though.

[jpschust]

i have it as well, and would love a copy though i wont be able to listen till after about 2/20.  I'm packing things up right now and trying to get everything ready to go over to the new condo.

[jhirte]

+T for new toys!  Sorry, no advice on the Sony, I've never even seen one.  That sounds really strange though.

thx!

Ya the sony issue is weird. I may call tonight and see what can be done.

[mmmatt]

Cool!  Thanks for the interest guys.  I decided wtf, I'll shoot it up on the archive along with the 16bit and 24/44.1  2chan versions.  If it (the 5.1 version) is horrendous I will pull it but it sounds sweet in 2 chan mode.  I think using the sbd bass exclusively for the sub channel really appeals to me.  Sometimes it is hard to sync audience bass with sbd bass because of the way sound travels at different frequencies, and resonance's even though they are minimized outdoors.  Sometimes it is tough with on stage too.  Oh well, we'll see what a blind man with limited knowledge can do to impress the visionaries around here!

     PM if you want dvd-a's mailed out or otherwise I will post when it is up on the archive.  That should be mid week with my cable connection!  I am including all the files split and the discwelder bronze .wld files so you don't have to manually place the tracks.

matt

[mmmatt]

OK, I got a couple of pms for the discs so I will close up that offer.  I will post when the files are on the lma.  Please note that you need to be able to burn and playback dvd-a files for this type of file.

Matt

[mmmatt]

One more thing!  The naming convention has kinda bit me already on this one.  typical "d#t# at the end" makes this really a big pain to incert into diskwelder, so I came up with another naming convention that works.  If anyone reading this has dvd-a 5.1 burning software, please post to the other thread if you have comments!  If this format ever gets popular it will be a mess with out conformity.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=58302.0

thanx
Matt

[BobW]

<snob_voice> Can Surround sound ever be "high-end" ?  </snob_voice>       

Seriously, there are a few good amps that do surround, but be wary of the potential for many more reflections, interference nodes, etc.
My motto is two ears, two speakers.

Has anyone had any experience with Outlaw products ?
Not that I'd ever switch ......   

[mmmatt]

<snob_voice> Can Surround sound ever be "high-end" ?  </snob_voice>       

Seriously, there are a few good amps that do surround, but be wary of the potential for many more reflections, interference nodes, etc.
My motto is two ears, two speakers.

I tend to agree with you on that.  I'm sure many do... which is why I have never spendt the dough. 
      I did happen to remember I'm doing some business with the owner's son of an independant a/v shop in town.  So I stopped by today with my discs and they threw them on there "high end" dennon home theatre system.  It only showed 2 channels through the receiver.  Not sure what is up with that.  The dvd player showed 6 but the amp didn't recognise it through either the 6 cord input or the digi in.  I'm hoping they just didn't know what the hell they were doing!  Fat chance I guess, but maybe something was up.  Through the digi in it came through all 6 (8 actually) speakers, but it wasn't what I put in the channels.  It was all the same with some dennon effects.  Through the 6-cord out it was just the mains.  For my video project it shouldn't matter because he will be using the seperate files, but it makes me question the 5.1 burning of discwelder.

Matt

[guysonic]

A sound catalog company is customer with DSM-4CS/H surround mic.  They recently posted 5.1 sample files at: http://www.sound-ideas.com/immersion-surround-demo.html

Full instructions on the download included. 

Burned these with 'Bronze' and was fully entertained, but could do without the 'voice inside empty storage tank' promo part.

[L Ron Hoover]

Matt, the discs arrived today and sound great!
Thanks again.

"Let's go down to the smokin' hole"

[mmmatt]

Matt, the discs arrived today and sound great!
Thanks again.

"Let's go down to the smokin' hole"

Thanks Lee!  I want you to listen to a few things for me. I had the great pleasure of getting a responce to a few questions I had about 5.1 mixing from a guy who runs a surround studio in Burbank CA.

Please listen and see if you can detect any distortion due to over driving your processor at the hot points of dynamic impact.  I think I held my levels up too high. as ageneral rule of thumb, he suggested keeping each track at about -2 db peaks unless I was going for a tv/broadcast mix.  In that case, each network or station will specify but they are usually -10db and peaks at -4.  He said if it goes the tinyest bit over they send it back to you and make you do it over.

He also told me I should not have pulled the bass frequencies out of the 5 main channels.  In a situation like yours where you have no lfe (sub) in use, you should technically be missing out on the bulk of the lowend.  Check and see if you have a feature in your processor to sum the lfe channel with the rest.  If so switch it back and fourth and let me know if it makes a difference.

Most importantly did the channels seem to ballance without any major tweaking on your processor?  Did it image like you were in the sweetspot? Could you tell the difference in the crowd responces from the front to rear?

Thank you so much for your help!!!!!  +T

Matt

*edit*  He was also kind enough to say that the way I was recording was "the most sensible approach to live capture that he had heard in a long time".  I think the gymic of feeling like your head was inside the kit and the guitar player is doing the happy-panzie dance around the room is starting to wear off with the music business folks.  I highly recommed others try this out and play with it a bit.  It has been a lot of fun!

Matt