Topic: Looking for play/record solution. Wav, level meters, flash based, Under $200.

[Psuper]

I've searched these forums for days and have come to the conclusion that my best bet is the iriver hxxx (likely the H120 and Rockbox firmware) series  if I can find one.

However! I want to make sure there's no other options available, as I'm not entirely sold on the internal non-changeable battery but could live with it. And frankly the hard drive scares me, I'm assuming it's not as robust as a flash drive would be. Do my concerns have any merit here or should I just buy the H120?

I'm looking for a player/recorder that will mainly be used to simply play music, with the occasional sampling of environments (not hard core taping, simply sampling of birds, thunderstorms, water, wind, malls, etc. Basically just short sampling episodes when I need them for my music I write). So I don't need massive storage, long battery life per charge, or big screens, but do need a couple of things that are usually found only in the higher end products. Here's what I'm looking for:

Player/Recorder. Wav or other lossless 16/44 format.
Line IN with level meters. (alternate firmware like rockbox that adds levels is fine)
Minimum 1 Gig storage, preferably flash based., even better if it was removable flash.
Changeable batteries (long life not an issue)
Under $200.00 (I could go more, but that's my target at the moment)


So if there are any alternatives to the Iriver discontinued H1xxx series that would fit the bill could you please let me know?

Thanks

[fozzy]

get a JB3 and be done w/ it.  Don't be scared of hardrives, it is in your price range, it is a lot cheaper than flash

[Psuper]

Thanks for the reply fozzy. I know hard drives are cheaper, and the micro ones are more robust, but I'm still concerned because I know how easy it is to ruin one with a bit of shaking (at least the full size ones), and if it breaks I'm screwed. This would be going on my jogs and hikes, and I know I'll be shaking it a bit.

I've considered nabbing a really cheap player and buy a seperate one (the nomad or h120) for recording. Perhaps that's my best bet, but I cant shake the distrust for hard drive based players.

[Will_S]

I was intrigued enough by the Gemini iKey that even though I haven't found a good review of it from a taper's perspective, I went ahead and ordered one.  Haven't had a chance to test it yet (just showed up tonight) but on paper it meets most of your requirements...I don't think you'll find anything that meets them all.  I'm hoping to test it out and post here soon.

Player/Recorder. Wav or other lossless 16/44 format.

Check.  Well, it records in wav.  No playback.

Line IN with level meters. (alternate firmware like rockbox that adds levels is fine)

Check, sort of.  Has line in, has adjustable record levels.  It also has a clip indicator and low level warnings.  This seems like it could be the iKey's Achilles heel, so I'll be trying it out soon.

Minimum 1 Gig storage, preferably flash based., even better if it was removable flash.

Check.  You can hook up pretty much any USB or USB 2.0 hard drive or MP3 player.  A 1G iPod shuffle would bump it over your $200 limit but add playback.  Wait, I'm not sure if the shuffle plays WAVs.  There's surelly a flash based MP3 player out there that does though.  **EDIT: The iPod shuffle will play wavs.  Current new prices at Amazon would combine to $235 for the iKey + shuffle.  I saw some cheaper 1G flash players but on first glance none that play wavs.

Changeable batteries (long life not an issue)

Check.  4xAA's.  When I opened the box of the iKey I was a little disappointed to realize the battery compartment is held closed by 4 screws - not ideal for quick changes in the field.  The iKey package included 4 thumbscrews to swap in to make changes quicker, but I suspect they'd be easy to lose.  That said, if your main concern is long term loss of capacity in a proprietary rechargeable that will be hard to replace, the iKey gets around that

Under $200.00 (I could go more, but that's my target at the moment)

Check.  The iKey pricing at Amazon seems to bounce around between $110 and $150.  I got it for $110.  You could add a 1G USB 2.0 flash drive for $90 or less.

That said the iRiver with the latest version of Rockbox looks like a pretty nice package.  I chose to try out the iKey first since I already owned a suitable drive (iPod mini, actually) to record onto and I was concerned about the iRiver's battery holding up over the long-term.

[AGI]

I own both a JB3 (since 2 years) and a H120 (1 month) and let me say that when the rockbox developers will implement digital-in I have no more reasons to own both. It will be H120.

Beside considerations on its form factor, the big bonus is the Rockbox Open Source firmware which is giving the H120 a bright new life.

It plays all sound formats I care of: wav, aiff, flac, shn.
It records in wav, when it reaches the 2GB limit it opens a new file without dropping a single frame. I guess it even wont be too difficult in the future to have it also recording directly to a lossless format, like flac f.e.
It has a prerecording function, settable from 0 to 30 seconds.
It has plug-in power (3.5V if I'm not mistaken) which sometimes could come handy.
Not to mention other nice features like speakable menu items (for sight impaired people)...

As for the internal battery, my first tests show I can record for 5h20m before it goes down to the last battery mark. Enough for my needs.

I agree with Fozzy, don't be scared by harddrives, You'll never have problems as long as you treat them with the obvious cares.

[flintstone]

An alternative not discussed so far is the Sony Hi-MD recorder. Specs include:

Stereo WAV recording at 16/44.1
Hi-MD disc has 1GB storage, good for 94 minutes of stereo WAV recording per disc
Using Hi-SP ATRAC,  the 1GB disc can hold almost 8 hours of high quality compressed tracks
Hi-MD disc costs about $6.00 each, can be re-used thousands of times
3.5mm Line in, and mic in TRS ports
Mic-in port offers "plug-in power" to mics that can use it.
SP/DIF optical input (shares the line in port)
Level meters, levels adjustable on the fly
Internal 1000mAh "gumstick" battery good for ~4 hours of WAV recording
Gumstick battery is easily replaceable in the field
NH-14WM 1400mAh replacement battery available
Includes external AA battery box that adds 2.5 hours of recording
Upload recordings to PC in digital form via USB using Sony's Sonicstage software
Recorder measures 3.3" x 3.3" x 0.75" and weighs about 5 ounces

The Sony MZ-RH910 Hi-MD recorder costs about $170. 

The Sony MZ-RH10 model adds a fancy OLED display that is very easy to read,
a remote control that is inline with the headphones, and a 1400mAh battery.
The RH10 costs about $230.

Let us know what you choose.
Flintstone

[gl0bber]

Psuper specified that his ideal recorder should be flash memory based - but I must tell y'all, the only thing my MT has over the RH(9)10 HiMD recorders is the sheer number of bugs.  It comes down to personal choice, but right now I would rather have to wait an extra 15 minutes transferring PCM recordings via Sonic Stage 3.4 (finally no more DRM on anything, yay!) than not anything at all when my MT randomly decides to act up.  Also, Sony's superior quality and craftsmanship adds to the ownership experience.

Good luck with your choice, Psuper!

[david_f]

Rockbox is being ported to the iriver flash based player/recorders like the 799.

If they ever get those worked up to be able to record right to a lossless compression format they might be a decent option.

[Psuper]

Thanks a ton for the replys guys, I've done some checking and will keep yas updated.

Yea I want to try to stay flash based, especially seeing how fast it's taken off the last couple years in both storage size and cost; removable flash cards even better. If I were to get a dedicated player and a separate ambiance sampler, I see the hard drive or MD based recording method as a viable alternative, but I'm gunning for an all-in-one.

My eye is on the iriver flash players, especially if rockbox gets involved with their new lines. The only reason is it seems iriver has the "up" on competition when it comes to mp3 player/recorders, even if it is because of a 3rd party firmware.

But I'm definitely keeping my options open. My standard mode is to browse dealnews or techbargains, see what players/recorders are getting dealt and hit some reviews on the ones I'm not familiar with. Keeps me busy anyways, least until I finally go for it.

Great forum, great guys. Thanks again!


Psuper!