Topic: Improving the sound chain

[morningdew]

I taped only my second show last night using the following:

Audix m1290c > Oade digimod UA-5 > JB3.

I was really amazed at the results and very pleased.  Two things I would like to improve upon though.

1.  While the band is between songs, if I crank up the volume I get some hiss, similar to old cassette hiss.  I think the next two things I'm going to upgrade are moding the UA-5 with a busman mod or a +T mod (not sure which) and get a quality set of mic cables.  I'm using the OEM cables that came with the mics.

Which, if any of these two changes do you think will do the most to help reduce/eliminate this hiss?

2. My mics were set up about 90 degrees and 20cm apart, 3' from the stage.  It was in a bar but I thought the sound was very good.  The vocals for some reason seem a bit distant.  By distant I mean that while I'm listening it feels like the singer is maybe standing 2-3' feet behind the band when in reality he is the most front and center performer.  Is there a different mic configuration I can try to help solve that problem?

Thanks.

[Shawn]

The vocals for some reason seem a bit distant

Judging based on the pics you posted in the Rig Pics section it looks like your mics were on-stage  or right at the stage lip. When you tape like this your mics pick up less of the PA sound and more of the sound coming from the stage. What that means is that any instrument that isn’t amplified on stage (i.e. vocals) is going to sound quiet. I'd suggest moving back to pick up more of the PA.

Which, if any of these two changes do you think will do the most to help reduce/eliminate this hiss

IMO modifying the ua-5 (either busman or oade) will probably improve your sound more and reduce the hiss.

[Brian]

the hiss is from the digimod ua5.  without the analog modifications from the oades the pres can be noisy at higher gains. 

[Roving Sign]

Insert Quote
the hiss is from the digimod ua5.  without the analog modifications from the oades the pres can be noisy at higher gains.

Which...unless you are planning on recording unamplified/lower SPL sounds shouldn't matter too much...

With the levels set for a rock show - the hiss is mostly, if not totally, inaudible (as you said - you had to crank it up to hear it...dont do that!)

If you are recording solo piano or classical guitar - then the self-noise of the UA5 might be an issue...

If the vox seem distant - ditto the above recommendation - record more PA - thats where the vocals are...on stage the vocals are directed the opposite direction of the music...(via the monitors) - which further complicates things...

[morningdew]

Great feedback.  Thanks guys.

"Don't crank it up.." lol.  Your right, that's what nice, I only notice it during the music luls and only if I turn it up pretty loud..about 75-100%.  I figured it was in the UA-5 but if a mod will reduce it significantly, which it sounds like it will, I'll get it done in the next few months.

At this venue I don't kniow if moving back is a good option.  It would put me in the middle of bar patrons and I don't know if I want that.  The tables are arranged like comedy club tables where they run longwise perpendicular to the stage.

What about running omni-caps?  This might capture more of the vocals my ears were hearing but didn't show up on the tape.  It's not bad or anything it just sounds sort of distant.  All the other instruments are right up front with perfect spacing, you can hear where each player was on the stage.

[Brian]

omni caps won't really matter a whole lot.  you might pickup more vocals if you are in front of the monitors.  if you are still behind the monitors, you'llonly be getting reflections of the original vocal sound coming out of the PA and monitors.  it's all about posititioning from the sound source.  on stage, with the right config, the instruments will sound very real and it will be a nice reproduction of what happened on stage.

however if you are recording a band with vocals and they are down in the mix to the point where it is hard to understand what is being sung, then what's the point, ya know? (or at least in my opinion)

try moving back to where it sounds best from the audience.  decide whether or not the tradeoff is worth it to you.  For me, the clarity of the vocals and the handling of the low end are my two biggest critiques in any audience recording.

[Kush]

I'm not sure if this is an option for you or not . . . but if this is a tiny bar like the pics you posted in the rig pics section, why not try a matrix? You could use the RCAs in the back of the UA5 for the sbd feed as well as the XLRs in the front for your mic feed. I've noticed that with sbd patches in small bars you get mostly vocals way upfront. A mixture of the two might be just the right amount of both variables.