SBE and CD Wave question

[RebelRebel]

I might be wrong, but I believe SBE's are only an issue w/ 16bit files.

you are right.

[F.O.Bean]

I might be wrong, but I believe SBE's are only an issue w/ 16bit files.

you are right.

and to add to this, not only 16 bit files, but ONLY redbook 16/44.1k files

[ellaguru]

just run your wavs thru flac frontend if youre on windoze and check the 'align on sector boundaries' box, done deal, since doing this i have yet to hear any artifacts YMMV tho

and ive had flac frontend say it corrected SBE's after i processed via CDWav.......

chris

[F.O.Bean]

just run your wavs thru flac frontend if youre on windoze and check the 'align on sector boundaries' box, done deal, since doing this i have yet to hear any artifacts YMMV tho

and ive had flac frontend say it corrected SBE's after i processed via CDWav.......

chris

same here, just because you use cdwave doesnt mean they arent there, if you place a marker to close to the beginning/end of the files, you'll get an SBE

[JasonSobel]

just run your wavs thru flac frontend if youre on windoze and check the 'align on sector boundaries' box, done deal, since doing this i have yet to hear any artifacts YMMV tho

and ive had flac frontend say it corrected SBE's after i processed via CDWav.......

chris

same here, just because you use cdwave doesnt mean they arent there, if you place a marker to close to the beginning/end of the files, you'll get an SBE

actually, that's not true.  CD Wave ALWAYS cuts files on sector boundaries.  the ONLY was to get a file with a sector boundary error when using CD Wave is if you don't cut off a little bit at the end.  because the original file is probably not an exact multiple of a CD sector size, the last track is not going to be an even multiple.  so you want to have a very short track at the end, that you'll just throw away.  it could be 10 seconds, it could be less than a second, it doesn't matter.

here is an example.  It's totally made up, because a CD Sector size is 1/75th of a second.
let's say a CD sector size is 5 seconds.  the original file you have is 77 seconds.
if you use CD Wave to cut it, you can only place a track marker at intervals of 5 seconds.  So let's say you place a marker at 10 seconds, 25 seconds, 35 seconds, 40 seconds, 45seconds, 60 seconds, and 70 seconds.  Your last track will be 7 seconds long, not an even multiple of the sector size.  so then you get a sector boundary error.  What you want to do is place a track marker at 75, and then throw away the last track.  the last good track is now 5, and an even multiple of a sector sice.

does that help at all?

[twatts]

SBE's occur when tracks aren't cut at a sector boundary.  CDWave will split a WAV file so that no SBEs are present, but it does not fix any SBEs.

If you have a SBE at the end of a WAV, it will not fix this.  You will either have to trim the last bit of the WAV off, or fix with SHNTOOLs.  I go to the end of the WAV file and REW by about 0.01 sec and trim (this is enough to fix the SBE).  I also trim about 0.01 sec from the beginning of the WAV.

Whenever I work with a WAV file, I do all my processing in Soundforge first and save the whole show as 1 big WAV file.  Next, I go into CDWave and if the WAV is longer than 80 min., I cut the WAV into 2 pieces and save as disc 1 and disc 2.  Then with CDWave, I trim the beginning and cut Disc 1 into tracks.  At this point DO NOT TRIM THE END OF THE WAV (you already did that when you cut the track in 2).  After saving, I load Disc 2 and trim the end.  This also gets tracked out and saved.

If the big WAV is less than 80 min. I trim the beginning and end, then track.

If you do not trim the beginning and (especially) the end of your Master WAV file, you WILL get SBEs.

Terry

PS SBEs may only be an issue with 16/44, but if you "up" to go DVD and have to merge all your WAVs into one big WAV, these SBEs will show up as silent spots or dropouts.

[F.O.Bean]

just run your wavs thru flac frontend if youre on windoze and check the 'align on sector boundaries' box, done deal, since doing this i have yet to hear any artifacts YMMV tho

and ive had flac frontend say it corrected SBE's after i processed via CDWav.......

chris

same here, just because you use cdwave doesnt mean they arent there, if you place a marker to close to the beginning/end of the files, you'll get an SBE

actually, that's not true.  CD Wave ALWAYS cuts files on sector boundaries.  the ONLY was to get a file with a sector boundary error when using CD Wave is if you don't cut off a little bit at the end.  because the original file is probably not an exact multiple of a CD sector size, the last track is not going to be an even multiple.  so you want to have a very short track at the end, that you'll just throw away.  it could be 10 seconds, it could be less than a second, it doesn't matter.

here is an example.  It's totally made up, because a CD Sector size is 1/75th of a second.
let's say a CD sector size is 5 seconds.  the original file you have is 77 seconds.
if you use CD Wave to cut it, you can only place a track marker at intervals of 5 seconds.  So let's say you place a marker at 10 seconds, 25 seconds, 35 seconds, 40 seconds, 45seconds, 60 seconds, and 70 seconds.  Your last track will be 7 seconds long, not an even multiple of the sector size.  so then you get a sector boundary error.  What you want to do is place a track marker at 75, and then throw away the last track.  the last good track is now 5, and an even multiple of a sector sice.

does that help at all?

good ponmyts, i was just lazy and wrote something quickly

actually tho, ive placed markers w/ as little as 1/3 of a second anywhere from up to 5 seconds before the wav ends, and still get the sbe, thats also after tossing thaqt VERY small wav at the end

its just good practice IMO to use frontend to take these away, i fix LOTS of SBE's of BT/Archived stuff, and fwiw, i have heard clicks/pops when theyre thjere and none when theyre gone, so i continue to use frontend

[rowjimmy]

Everybody has a different process i see but mine is this:

fades, dither, etc in wavelab then save one big .wav

track in cdwav dropping the end bit and a little snippet on the beginning (the beginning snip isn't needed but i do it as habit)

Save as flac

run traders little helper for ffp and shntool -len check.

run foobar2k for tags.

drink a beer.

[F.O.Bean]

ive never done tags, theyre stiull over my head

[macdaddy]

just run your wavs thru flac frontend if youre on windoze and check the 'align on sector boundaries' box, done deal, since doing this i have yet to hear any artifacts YMMV tho

and ive had flac frontend say it corrected SBE's after i processed via CDWav.......

chris

same here, just because you use cdwave doesnt mean they arent there, if you place a marker to close to the beginning/end of the files, you'll get an SBE

actually, that's not true.  CD Wave ALWAYS cuts files on sector boundaries.  the ONLY was to get a file with a sector boundary error when using CD Wave is if you don't cut off a little bit at the end.  because the original file is probably not an exact multiple of a CD sector size, the last track is not going to be an even multiple.  so you want to have a very short track at the end, that you'll just throw away.  it could be 10 seconds, it could be less than a second, it doesn't matter.

here is an example.  It's totally made up, because a CD Sector size is 1/75th of a second.
let's say a CD sector size is 5 seconds.  the original file you have is 77 seconds.
if you use CD Wave to cut it, you can only place a track marker at intervals of 5 seconds.  So let's say you place a marker at 10 seconds, 25 seconds, 35 seconds, 40 seconds, 45seconds, 60 seconds, and 70 seconds.  Your last track will be 7 seconds long, not an even multiple of the sector size.  so then you get a sector boundary error.  What you want to do is place a track marker at 75, and then throw away the last track.  the last good track is now 5, and an even multiple of a sector sice.

does that help at all?

exactamundo!

+t for typing that all out...

[Gordon]

ive never done tags, theyre stiull over my head

ditto

[macdaddy]

ive never done tags, theyre stiull over my head

ditto

easy to do in foobar.

[twatts]

ive placed markers w/ as little as 1/3 of a second anywhere from up to 5 seconds before the wav ends, and still get the sbe, thats also after tossing thaqt VERY small wav at the end

Interesting, I've never had that happen.  However, I do know that if you do any processing AFTER you do your tracking (EQing, fades, etc.) that you can make new SBEs... 

I've seen sources marked source>cdwave>SF5.0 (fades)>FLAC that have SBEs because of the fades being put in afterwards. 

Anyways, I think its a good idea to run Traders Helper or SHNTOOLs to check for SBEs and fix them if you can.  Its just nice...

Terry

[JasonSobel]

ive placed markers w/ as little as 1/3 of a second anywhere from up to 5 seconds before the wav ends, and still get the sbe, thats also after tossing thaqt VERY small wav at the end

Interesting, I've never had that happen.  However, I do know that if you do any processing AFTER you do your tracking (EQing, fades, etc.) that you can make new SBEs... 

I've seen sources marked source>cdwave>SF5.0 (fades)>FLAC that have SBEs because of the fades being put in afterwards. 

Anyways, I think its a good idea to run Traders Helper or SHNTOOLs to check for SBEs and fix them if you can.  Its just nice...

Terry

while it's possible to introduce SBE if you edit the show after you track, it's not neccesarily true.  I always add fades after I track, and I never get SBEs (I check every show with SHNtool).  Fades don't change the length of the file.  As long as you don't change the length of the file, you won't get SBE's after the fact.

[F.O.Bean]

i run EVERY wav/set into cd wave first,. chop off the ends, and then save, THEN edit/track/flac and i still occassionally get SBE's FWIW