Regarding internal gain on the a portable recorder like the R-09, Hxx, JB3, etc. They may, in fact, have sufficient gain, but that's only part of the equation. The bigger issue IMO is self-noise. That's my rationale behind the AD-20 - high gain at low self-noise.
Yes Brian, that makes very much sense. As my original question was for a recording rig for quiet ambience setting your recomendation should fit the bill best.
My other requirements are small, lightweight, easy to use. I even had asked for high quality Mics that do not require phantom power for not having to carry a powering box and the heavy XLR connectores - which led to the SP-CMC4s. A R-09 certainly is much lighter than an H120+AD-20 combo.
However we do not have a direct comparison of the preamps and A/D of the R-09 and the AD-20. SunWizard reports that the R-09's are very quiet, even quiet enough for 'nature' recordings. But the question remains: Are the A/D and preamp of the R-09 as quiet as the A/D+preamp of the AD-20? - It would be perfect if somebody who owns both could shed light on this!
I see the big advantage of the onboard memory of the H1xx. But SP-CMC4 > R-09 must be the smallest, most lightweight, easy to set up and easy to use rig. Therefore in case that it is almost as noise free as the h1xx+AD-20 combo it should be my prefered choice. ( I carry a 2,5 and a 3,5 external HD around with me and there are not expensive cases incl. cardreader that allow direct upload which should solve the storage question )
concerning SP-CMC4: As that they sound, as you say,
almost as good as the C4s they really make a very good choice for their small volume. ( The C4s could be a better match with the AD-20 for their XLR connectors ).
From some posts I got the impression that some would slightly prefer the AT853Rx, but I did not find out why.
Can the capsules on the SP-CMC4 also be changed?
concerning battery box:
You get a cleaner recording using the battery box since then you can set the gain much lower
So that means that the battery box not only helps for very loud sound source, but also for quiet ambience recordings, yes? The optional low cut and gain adjustments on the SP battery boxes can be of advantage, for loud sound sources the 3 wired selfmade box is favoured but not for quiet sound source as it lowers the gain, right? However I do like soldering and experimenting, so eventually I may try to make one, or better a preamp? ( now I can't - I am 'on the road' )
So, in the end: A H120 is on it's way, but I decided as not to get a AD-20 as of yet since I consider to change my recorder to be a R-09. I will start recording with my AT822 directly plugged into the H120...
..so I'd better enquire what is recommended for that! Chances are that I may stay with the H120 for some time before getting a R-09 anyway: I enjoy experimenting, would like trying to make my own preamp, as I guess a preamp would allow going line-in instead of mic-in which could be of advantage..well, if my selfmade preamp was better than the iriver's..
.
I wonder if my next investment sould be SP-CMC4s since you say:
The AT-853 are so hot with the battery box that for concerts you can run Line-in (no mic pre.)
to try them out directly inline > H120!