Topic: Quadrophonic?

[Sloan Simpson]

I'm probably going to be taping a band this weekend that's doing a "quadrophonic" setup for their show.  It's an "unofficial"/"underground" venue or whatever you wanna call it, so it's not gonna be too elaborate I'm sure.  Anyway, the guy putting on the show mentioned I should bring some extra mics if I could, and I got to thinkin'.  I have a spare JB3 to run something into, can probably come up with some spare mics, and am very familiar with synching 2 sources in post (although it's always been SBD/AUD, not AUD/AUD).

Any point in running a second pair facing the rear speakers, and mixing to taste later?  Off-hand I probably have access to a pair of 481's/3's , to run along with my 184's.  Config?

Thanks

EDIT: to add that I mean for CD audio, not 5.1.  Is there anything to be gained from micing those rear speakers in that case?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Interesting question.. I have a similar show coming up.  I plan on running mk4's DINA but have been giving some thought to a 4 way HRTF 4061 setup.  Two 4061's on the side and one in front and one in back?

I've also been wondering how I could capture the show with the mk4 DINA and a single pair of 4061's..

[spyder9]

What about omnis?

[pfife]

What about omnis?

my thought as well... 1 set of omnis, *I think* would be sufficient, especially if you can't mix it in quadrophonic.

[VA_TAPER]

two blumlein crossed figure-8's would be perfect.

peace, chris

[Sloan Simpson]

The only choices I'll have are:
2 pairs cardioids
1 pair cardioid/1 pair hypercardioid
1 pair cardioid

[VA_TAPER]

blumlein or j-disc

blumlein changes the rear image around, whereas, baffled omni j-disc keeps it more coherent, (in a two channel sense).

but with common HT gear blumlein decodes to matrix surround 

one Royer SF-12 should do the trick

[anodyne33]

The issue here is really how you're going to code it for playback. In a perfect world we'd all have quad playback systems.... straight out of 1971! I think your best bet is to try to capture the front and the rear as seperate sources and then find somebody who can encode your sources to a 5.1 and a virtual surround mix. It's fairly elaborate, but there are a few people on the board that are expreimenting with surround sound ambient recordings, and capturing two sources 180deg opposed is (I think) the olny way to be ablt to truely reproduce what they are trying to do in the future.

That having been said, if they are just kind of half-assing it and you don't feel like finding someone who can do a surround mix I'd do a matrix on the fly with the rearward facing mics (all four cards) lower in the mix. This may be the best way of getting a two channel tape of a surround source, but depending on the venue there may be phasing issues... what's the room like?

[mmmatt]

Cool oppertunity!!!!!  For the record, quadraphonic is just 4chan stereo.  Basically a 5.1 system without the center or sub channels.  If you want to try to record it on 2 seperate decks, I would hapily author it to a 5.1 mix for you.  I can only do "true" 5.1, I don't know how to do the surround wanabe stuff.  Authoring it isn't a big deal.  I use DiskWelder Bronze.  Delay/time aligning won't be a big deal either I don't think.
       As for how to run the mics... I'll say off the bat, that I have yet to do a single point 5.1 recording... but I have thought about it a lot.   I have always had board to work with and pairs of mics 100ft apart (on-stage and foh) at an outdoor venue.  However, that being said I personally would record x/y pointed front and ortf pointed rear.  I would use the x/y in front so that you can get good phase allingment for the center channel by just pushing the front pair mono for the center channel mix.  I would do it wide  (maybe 110 deg?) with the hypers, so that the mono version in the center acually fills the "hole in the middle" of the wide x/y to make a nice layered soundstage (a little delay here can add some depth).  Not sure why ortf is preferd for real channel surround but I have read that in a few articles on the subject.    I would try to tape from as near to the center of the 4 speakers as possible and try to keep the vertical allingment of the caps as close to on top of each other as possible.  Make sure, if you mix the sources together in post for a 2 chan mix (I think this would sound good also) that you remember flip the polarity on the rear facing mics. 

Now if you could grab the board too.... that would be some fun!

PM me or post here if I can help.

Matt

[Kyle]

My friend has done this a few times, with very decent results. He used X/Y cards (Neumann TLM-103) for the forward mics (to retain mono-compatibility for the left, center and right channels, for the 5.1  mix) and ORTF cards (KM-184) for the rear facing mics. They were mixed to 5.1 with Sony Vegas. Lots of fun and a pretty good payoff. Now, if we had the same mics, pres, adcs all the way around with a master clock it would have been really nice