Topic: Taping a piano player

[OFOTD]

I agreed to help a friend and record his wife playing piano.  She plays the piano for her church and they want to be able to have a copy of some of the songs on tape.  Just piano and nothing else.  Kinda of like a karaoke tape.  The church group could put in a cd of the piano and sing along to it.

The recording setup will be in their home.  The piano is an upright piano.  Nothing fancy.

Has anyone recorded in this type of situation.  I would love to hear what techniques you have used and what seemed to work the best. 

[RebelRebel]

Omnis about 3 feet apart and about 1 to 2 feet back as a starting point, in the "curve" of the piano..If this is more of a "pop" style accompaniment, you might want to get in closer. Omnis will not have any problems with proximity effect, so moving closer is no problem.

I would try half stick first, then completely open.

[winisp]

I don't have omnis - Just cards and hypers.

Any recommendations for recording a baby grand piano (solo) and a baby grand piano and violinist with cards and hypers??

Both playing classical (1600-1820 - Mozart, Handel, etc.)

[Patrick]

Omnis about 3 feet apart and about 1 to 2 feet back as a starting point, in the "curve" of the piano..If this is more of a "pop" style accompaniment, you might want to get in closer. Omnis will not have any problems with proximity effect, so moving closer is no problem.

I would try half stick first, then completely open.

Half stick produces nice results, omni's like Teddy said, I'd say a little further back than a foot.  Not sure if you have ck62's (they're in parenthesees?) but that should sound nice and full.  

winisp- check out this link.  A baby grand is a whole different story than an upright piano.  There is so much you can do.  Put those hypers in the closet, you won't need them for baby grands 

I actually printed this page off and used it as reference when i knew that there was a grand piano track in this session.  It helped, great advice.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=799184

[winisp]

Very useful link. +T to all. The hypers will be put in the closet for these recordings.

[grider]

I have, and suggest that you run close, run cards or even better omnis, and get tape rolling and just let the musician work his or her magic with no time constraints; we did a trial of three different positions for the mics and the grand piano:  mics in the case, mics about two feet above the case pointing down at the strings, and mics back about four feet high and about two feet back from the  piano itself recording sound from the piano strings and from the reflection off the grand piano cover; we then listened to the results critically, and recorded with the best sounding position; the second postion proved best for us; also, I suggest clearing the room of everyone except pianist and recordist, and keep everyone away and turn all telephones off, nothing like background noise to ruin "the" version of each song played during the recording session; and if he or she screws up a version or does not like a version of a song, tell them to just start over or play it all over again, comfort equals execution I have found

[RebelRebel]

I don't have omnis - Just cards and hypers.

Any recommendations for recording a baby grand piano (solo) and a baby grand piano and violinist with cards and hypers??

Both playing classical (1600-1820 - Mozart, Handel, etc.)

YES! That is easy..with Classical rep. you want more of the room,so do NOT go close..  In both cases, use the Cards in ORTF, OR an A-B setup. Farther back until you get the balance right. A trick for this is to put your hand over one ear and walk around the room until you hear the perfect balance. cupping one ear prevents the brain from doing binaural processing and skewing the results that you may hear. If you have more than two channels, I would do an ORTF Pair in the curve of the piano and a spot on the violin(hyper to reduce bleed). As for height, I would start at about 5 feet and go up from there until the desired tone is achieved.

[SonicSound]

Comments - Attenuation pad yes/no?

[grider]

Comments - Attenuation pad yes/no?

no, no need with just a piano especially if you are not close mic'ing

[svenkid]

I was thinking just use a boom stand with your cards, and place the mics in the open part ofthe piano where the noise comes from. in the same vein as how pianos are mic'd for concerts. 

[BayTaynt3d]

I know this isn't really the question nor does it seem that you have the mics or channels, but I've recorded grand pianos pretty successfully with this technique: open the top of the grand, boom in a card on the high strings and another card on the low strings pretty close for channels 1+2, then run split omnis or better-yet j-disc omnis on channel 3+4 back a ways from the curve of the piano and up a little bit in the air (play with this one, something like 5-10' back and 4-10' high, but use your ears). This setup gets you a lot to work with in post -- that close up sound with highs on one channel and lows on the other channel plus the big open room sound in stereo with that sweet j-disc omni feel, then mix to your liking.

[RebelRebel]

Comments - Attenuation pad yes/no?

No...attenutors degrade the S/N ratio for one thing. second, you should track at around -10 to -18 in 24 bit, so attenuation isnt needed.

[RebelRebel]

I know this isn't really the question nor does it seem that you have the mics or channels, but I've recorded grand pianos pretty successfully with this technique: open the top of the grand, boom in a card on the high strings and another card on the low strings pretty close for channels 1+2, then run split omnis or better-yet j-disc omnis on channel 3+4 back a ways from the curve of the piano and up a little bit in the air (play with this one, something like 5-10' back and 4-10' high, but use your ears). This setup gets you a lot to work with in post -- that close up sound with highs on one channel and lows on the other channel plus the big open room sound in stereo with that sweet j-disc omni feel, then mix to your liking.

the only thing with that is the more mics you get in on the solo instrument, the less detailed and "present" and "specific" it can sound. plus, phase problems, etc....a stereo pair plus one ambience pair way back (away from the instrument) is plenty adequate.

Sonic Sound ,FWIW, my post on tracking levels should clear up why you dont need attenuation or to record at clipping levels.. the extra insurance of low levels is a very good thing, for a uberdynamic piece such as the piano..

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68959.msg924114#msg924114

[cleantone]

a decent read for the UPRIGHT piano question.

might as well check this one out too though it is not as specific

[SonicSound]

Thank+s

Sonic Sound ,FWIW, my post on tracking levels should clear up why you dont need attenuation or to record at clipping levels.. the extra insurance of low levels is a very good thing, for a uberdynamic piece such as the piano..
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68959.msg924114#msg924114