DPA 4060s/HEBs into iRiver/R09

[divamum]

(I searched, i swear I did... I'm SURE this has come up before but I just can't find it - feel free to point me to old threads if necessary!)

I'm very likely going to turn my 4060 wannabe status into the real deal early next year, and I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row.  Since Rockbox, I find I'm using my iriver 120 setup more than my JB3 and I'm hoping to add an R09 to the mix at some point as well so my Q is mostly relevant to those units.

1.  If I were to get a set of HEBs do I need the battery box as well?  I have to have SOME kind of line boost, thus anticipating running mic-in rather than line-in since I'm recording acoustic music (opera) and line in isn't loud enough.  Do the iRiver/R09 provide sufficient power using only the  mic in socket?  I would prefer to run without an external pre if possible simply to keep the amount of gear down to a minimum (I need to be serious stealth)

2.  If the mic in sockets on these units do NOT provide sufficient power for those mics, will it work to run Mics>BB>mic in without frying some portion of the chain?

Thanks in advance, and sorry again if this is a Q that has been addressed and I simply missed it!

DM

[WiFiJeff]

Instead of the HEB 4060s, get a standard pair with the microdot connectors.  This is a bit cheaper, and with what you save and a couple hundred more get a DPA MMA6000 preamp.  This will power the 4060s (and is not a whole lot bigger than a battery box, which you would otherwise definitely need) and is a very nice and easy to use preamp, designed for those mics.  Absolutely great for opera (but sit up close).

Jeff

[divamum]

Thanks Jeff - that's certainly an option, and one I'll check into in detail when it comes time to buy (countin' down... ).   That said, i'd REALLY like to run straight into (for instance) the R9 if that's a possibility - less is most definitely more in my situation.

But thanks for the info - I'm gathering from this you like your MM6000?

[WiFiJeff]

But thanks for the info - I'm gathering from this you like your MM6000?

It's very nice.  The only problem I've ever had with it is the connector for the 9V battery, which is not very robust.  I believe they have fixed this for newer runs of the MMA6000, and they replaced my connector under warranty. 

I'm pretty sure you'll need a battery box with the HEB, and the MMA6000 isn't all that much bigger, though you can get a really small battery box to replace the tank Len sells with the HEB set.

Jeff

[RebelRebel]

Thanks Jeff - that's certainly an option, and one I'll check into in detail when it comes time to buy (countin' down... ).   That said, i'd REALLY like to run straight into (for instance) the R9 if that's a possibility - less is most definitely more in my situation.

But thanks for the info - I'm gathering from this you like your MM6000?

Diva, just go with the MMA6000>>>"authentic" DPA setup...it will be a perfect match for you. Clean gain, stealth...robust!

[divamum]

Thanks bosy - your very positive feelings about this will certainly be taken into consideration!  What powers the MM6000 (I assume a 9v batt?), and roughly how long does it last?  Also, the MM6k is an analog pre with no ADC, right?

However, I'm still interested in info on non-pre options. Also,  just looking up prices I see that Sweetwater's DPA 4060s are $425 each - that  plus the DPA pre would bring me in considerably above the $900 HEB set which includes the BB (also, the picture of the BB at core looks pretty small, but I've never seen one live - if you say it's a brick, I believe it's a brick!).

Not arguing, here - as I say, the fact you both are SO quick to recc' the MM6000 is certainly something I will take very seriously - but want to get as much information on as many options as possible

[corsair]

The iRiver can power the DPAs sufficiently for most scenarios through the line-in jack.

[WiFiJeff]

(also, the picture of the BB at core looks pretty small, but I've never seen one live - if you say it's a brick, I believe it's a brick!).

It's small but heavy, all metal (as is the MMA6000).  After 9/11 I got a plastic battery box made that is both smaller, lighter, and not as likely to trigger a wanding.  The other advantage to the MMA6000 is that it has a battery light, which blinks green while the 9V cell is good, from the time it starts blinking red you get better than three hours remaining use (over 24 hours use in total from a 9V).  Before that, with a plain battery box, I was flying blind and ended up wasting a lot of 9V cells that still had life.  I figure the MMA6000 pays for itself in 9V cells every 20 years or so 

Jeff

[divamum]

Thanks Jeff.

To add to the question list: if one were to them w/an M6K, is there a cable adaptor that would allow them to be plugged directly into an iriver?

And any further info on whether an R09 WILL run them adequately mic-in? 

Thanks again boys - apprecaite the responses

[WiFiJeff]

Thanks Jeff.

To add to the question list: if one were to them w/an M6K, is there a cable adaptor that would allow them to be plugged directly into an iriver?

And any further info on whether an R09 WILL run them adequately mic-in? 

Thanks again boys - apprecaite the responses

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  With the MMA6000 the 4060 mics have microdot connectors, and the cable out of the MMA6000 is 1/8" stereo.  I suppose you could get a dual-microdot to 1/8" stereo adapter to use them directly into an iRiver (if the iRiver can power them, which I don't know to be true), but I have not seen one of these.

Jeff

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

I think there's a Sonic Studios preamp/battbox which can be used too.... never tried it personally though.

[divamum]

I suppose you could get a dual-microdot to 1/8" stereo adapter to use them directly into an iRiver (if the iRiver can power them, which I don't know to be true), but I have not seen one of these.

Jeff

Yep, that's the one I'm wondering about. It would be AWESOME if they could be made variable enough to run into both scenarios... (don't want much, do I?! lol)

Omg, roll on March 2007 (which is when I'll actually get to DO this)

[George]

FYI:

I paid $750 new for my dpa4061's and $469 for the mma6000.  The issue that I had with the mma6000 is that damn door that covers the battery compartment...it wouldn't slide across so I could access the battery compartment so I tore it off.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks Jeff.

To add to the question list: if one were to them w/an M6K, is there a cable adaptor that would allow them to be plugged directly into an iriver?

And any further info on whether an R09 WILL run them adequately mic-in? 

Thanks again boys - apprecaite the responses

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  With the MMA6000 the 4060 mics have microdot connectors, and the cable out of the MMA6000 is 1/8" stereo.  I suppose you could get a dual-microdot to 1/8" stereo adapter to use them directly into an iRiver (if the iRiver can power them, which I don't know to be true), but I have not seen one of these.

Jeff

I'll second the MMA6k suggestion.  Very nice sounding, well built unit built especially for the 406x mics.  You can put it in one front pants pocket and the recorder in the other.  It is signifigantly larger, heavier & made of metal vs. the R-09 though.

Since the preamps in the R-09 seem to be pretty decent at lower gain levels, I've also wondered about eliminating the MMA6k for high steath situations that do not require as much quiet gain.  By the specs, the R-09 doesn't have sufficient plug-in power to power the 4060/4061's itself.  In light of that, I've been thinking about (4060>dual-microdot to 1/8" stereo adapter>batt box>R-09 line in) as well.  Or perhaps a custom batt box with microdot inputs and eliminate the adaptor.  Either way the cable or batt box with the microdots would need to be custom built.

I don't know of anyone who has tried to power the 4060/4061's directly with the R-09 but would be curious to know if it works and how much the performance is reduced if it does.  DPA makes a lower voltage version of the 4061, but not the 4060 (dont' know the number off hand, you can find it on the DPA site) that could potentially be powered directly from the R-09, but that's uncharted territory.  Uncertain if that version works with the MMA6k.  It's designed for use directly into lower voltage wireless systems.

You can get a little better deal on the DPA stuff from some of the smaller vendors recommended on this site & you'll support the smaller buisnesses that support us in turn.

Good luck!

[RebelRebel]

I don't know of anyone who has tried to power the 4060/4061's directly with the R-09 but would be curious to know if it works and how much the performance is reduced if it does. 

i ran dpa 4061 > iriver h120 via line in (2.5v of power) last weekend for a friend's band and there was no audible distortion.
others have also run the same setup a lot and reported no distortion problems except on VERY loud (i.e. ear bleeding) shows.
the spec for the dpa 406x series says that 5v is the minimum power required so i dunno what is actually missing from these 2.5v powered  recordings dynamics wise; if anything.  maybe it makes the mic distort at 140 dB instead of the spec 144 dB and doesn't affect the frequency response & dynamic range?

what you will be trading off with under powering is lesser sensitivity and worse signal to noise ratio.