Topic: sp-cmc-19 (standard) vs sp-cmc-20 (deluxe) vs sp-cmc-22 (deluxe)

[dJStar]

I finally decided to buy a microphone, as my current rig consists of a HiMd with some headpones and I better start upgrading

I noticed sound professionals does have some nice overstock deals at the moment and I wanted some advice about these mics

SP-CMC-19 (standard)
from 199$ to $59.00
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19

Specifications:

    * Signal To Noise Ratio: >58 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
    * Dynamic Range: 76dB without battery module, 91dB with battery module
    * Frequency Response: 80 - 18,000 Hz
    * Open Circuit Sensitivity: -51 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
    * Maximum Input Sound Level: 105 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D. (120dB when powered by our battery module)

Features:

    * Wide frequency response
    * Uni-directional cardioid pickup pattern
    * Very small size
    * Can be used directly with any recorder that has "plug-in-power" or with a battery module
    * Premium windscreens included (not shown)
    * Available in a Omnidirectional version - order SP-BMC-2 model instead

SP-CMC-20 (deluxe)
from 179$ to 59$
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-20

Specifications:

    * Signal To Noise Ratio: >58 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
    * Dynamic Range: 76dB without battery module, 91dB with battery module
    * Frequency Response: 50 - 20,000 Hz
    * Open Circuit Sensitivity: -45 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
    * Maximum Input Sound Level: 105 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D. (120dB when powered by our battery module)

Features:

    * Wide frequency response
    * Uni-directional cardioid pickup pattern
    * Small size
    * Can be used directly with any recorder that has "plug-in-power" or with a battery module
    * Premium windscreens included

SP-CMC-22 (deluxe)
from 129$ to 69$
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-22

Specifications:

    * Signal To Noise Ratio: >58 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
    * Dynamic Range: 76dB without battery module, 91dB with battery module
    * Frequency Response: 40 - 20,000 Hz
    * Open Circuit Sensitivity: -40 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
    * Maximum Input Sound Level: 105 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D. (120dB when powered by our battery module)

Features:

    * Wide frequency response
    * Uni-directional Cardioid pickup pattern
    * Small size
    * Can be used directly with any recorder that has "plug-in-power" or with a battery module
    * Premium windscreens included

The difference between the mics are the frequency range and open circuit sensitivity (what??).

My first idea/though was going for the cmc-19, which original was the most expensive (yeah i am dutch ), but then I noticed the worst freq. range (but possible best open circuit sensitivity?)

The cmc-20 then?? Well yes, looks good, but doesn't come with clips and only has the shure rotational clips as option which are 30$ (will need clips as I will be sealthing mainly).

so the cmc-22? best freq range and with clips, but original the cheapest (and worst open circuit sensitivity??). This one has option to chose between 3/4" and 1" mic size .. my choise would be 3/4"

I realized, currently I am mostly taping in HiSP mode, which might have cut-off at 18 kHz (not sure), but i might switch to wav in the future..

So what should i buy? Is the 18 vs 20 kHz difference big? what is open circuit  sensitivity and is it important (or should I put more importance in freq. range?)? What is standard vs deluxe (mic element is all the same i guess?)

Or should i go for something else?? i will be taping rock/bassy shows  mainly from the crowd (and like to be close to stage..)

Note:
A comparable priced mic commonly used in europe is the sony ecm 719
has freq range from 100-15,000 Hz!


I know the post is a bit a mess

[SkttrWave]

can't give you any advice on the mics, but here's an offer:
why don't you buy my sp-cmc-2 (AT831). They're more expensive, but I'm in the Netherlands as well so you'll save on shipping.
I guess most ppl (if not all) on here will agree that these mics are far a better choice than the ones you're considering now.
Just drop me a PM. If you need it I'll throw in my home made battery box (no extra charges) so you can run line-in.

anyway, great to see more dutch ppl getting into taping

[Humbug]

I've no experience with the three mics listed, but I'd agree, the CMC-2s are great mics.

Even after upgrading, there are still gigs where I prefer using them.

[knoxmallette]

I have the AT831's in a gooseneck from Sound Pros and the SP-CMC-19's and there is no comparison in sound- AT831's sound much better. The 19's are very small and stealthy but I was very disappointed with the results.

[hyperplane]

Just to add some information. If I'm not mistaken, all three of the models you listed (SP-CMC-19, SP-CMC-20, SP-CMC-22) all use panasonic capsules. Now, those are fine for what they are... but they generally cannot perform that great at high SPLs (i.e. typical rock concert noise levels). At least not without the Linkwitz mod or some other crafty circuitry.

As other people have mentioned, you will get much better performance from SP-CMC-2 (Audio Technica 831 mics). I haven't dealt with SkttrWave, but it's worth looking into... you should be able to save some $$$ by dealing with someone there in Europe.

One nice thing about the SP-CMC-2s is that even in a bad sounding venue or with a bad sound mix, the vocals on the recording will be much more upfront. And I like that aspect about them.

[beathydrolysis]

Just to add some information. If I'm not mistaken, all three of the models you listed (SP-CMC-19, SP-CMC-20, SP-CMC-22) all use panasonic capsules. Now, those are fine for what they are... but they generally cannot perform that great at high SPLs (i.e. typical rock concert noise levels). At least not without the Linkwitz mod or some other crafty circuitry.

As other people have mentioned, you will get much better performance from SP-CMC-2 (Audio Technica 831 mics). I haven't dealt with SkttrWave, but it's worth looking into... you should be able to save some $$$ by dealing with someone there in Europe.

One nice thing about the SP-CMC-2s is that even in a bad sounding venue or with a bad sound mix, the vocals on the recording will be much more upfront. And I like that aspect about them.

 Agreed, I have a pair of the premiums (sp-cmc-4 = AT853 ) and I love 'em.  They're great at high SPLs (with a preamp) and they really do bring the vocals out front, I was just musing on that this weekend.  Spend the extra dough, avoid the clipping/distortion/frustration, and actually enjoy your recordings.

[dJStar]

I am in contact with SkttrWave now and the CMC-s def. looks the best option for me!

but I was wondering if i will need a battery box WITH roll-off (will be recording loud concerts mainly)?
I checked out the specs of the at831c's (i asume c is correct) and it says
LOW FREQUENCY ROLL-OFF 80 Hz, 18 dB/octavel (specs, http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/29cddd9d16f8a17a/index.html   , are from the r, but only difference mentioned is:
AT831c – less power module; includes clothing clip and windscreen only; 10' (3 m) cable, unterminated)

does that mean they have a built in roll-off and and using a BB with roll-off,  higher then 80 Hz, is poinless??

[beathydrolysis]

does that mean they have a built in roll-off and and using a BB with roll-off,  higher then 80 Hz, is poinless??

I wouldn't say that, I think I have my BB with roll-off set at either 96 Hz or 106 Hz (?).  If the mics naturally roll-off at 80 hz you're never going to get anything lower than that.  But if you wan't to lift some more of your bass off the bottom (like I do @ 96 Hz) then the BB w/roll-off still helps.  You can do a lot in post production, so roll-off is not necessary.  However if you're taping analog, it is nice to take some more of the bass of the bottom so you can really get those mids and highs to shine at high db s without clipping.

[dJStar]

does that mean they have a built in roll-off and and using a BB with roll-off,  higher then 80 Hz, is poinless??

I wouldn't say that, I think I have my BB with roll-off set at either 96 Hz or 106 Hz (?).  If the mics naturally roll-off at 80 hz you're never going to get anything lower than that.  But if you wan't to lift some more of your bass off the bottom (like I do @ 96 Hz) then the BB w/roll-off still helps.  You can do a lot in post production, so roll-off is not necessary.  However if you're taping analog, it is nice to take some more of the bass of the bottom so you can really get those mids and highs to shine at high db s without clipping.

I meant to say lower indeed.

Anyway,
I am not sure if the at831 elements in the sp-cmc-2 have this roll-off as well or if it is only the case in the at831 mics as sold by Audio Technica... anyone?

[Humbug]

Try and get poorlyconditioned into this thread, I think he really understands about bass roll off and minidiscs. Or there's a thread someplace on here.

I have run several A:B comparisons of AT831 (battery box) and AT853 (3-wire battery box), running them in parallel at the same gig.

These are my conclusions:

AT831s (cards) will sound better (than the AT853s) in crappy sounding venues, they also work well as a super - stealth mic - ie just the tip of the capsules sticking out from hat, clothing, whatever. They lack a little bass (bottom end), and bass-roll off makes little or no difference when running them with a Nomad JB3 or H120

AT853s (cards) work best when the sound is a little better in the venue, they need space around the capsules to work best, and have good bass response. They also give slightly better stereo separation. My battery box does not have bass roll , so I have never tried it. They overload with a standard (2-wire) SP battery box and need phantom powering or 3-wire battery box.

AT853 (Hypers) work well outdoors or at larger venues, but not in windy conditions. They sound a little brittle if the sound isn't great.

I have several recordings on dime if you need samples, or I'll post you some discs.

http://www.dimeadozen.org/account-details.php?id=28282

[Church-Audio]

does that mean they have a built in roll-off and and using a BB with roll-off,  higher then 80 Hz, is poinless??

I wouldn't say that, I think I have my BB with roll-off set at either 96 Hz or 106 Hz (?).  If the mics naturally roll-off at 80 hz you're never going to get anything lower than that.  But if you wan't to lift some more of your bass off the bottom (like I do @ 96 Hz) then the BB w/roll-off still helps.  You can do a lot in post production, so roll-off is not necessary.  However if you're taping analog, it is nice to take some more of the bass of the bottom so you can really get those mids and highs to shine at high db s without clipping.

I meant to say lower indeed.

Anyway,
I am not sure if the at831 elements in the sp-cmc-2 have this roll-off as well or if it is only the case in the at831 mics as sold by Audio Technica... anyone?

You can also try my mics I have a sale on now for T.S members for $79.99 a pair they are better then the AT 831 IMHO.

Pm me if your interested there is a add in Yardsale with a recording sample made with these mics.


Chris Church

[Humbug]

You can also try my mics I have a sale on now for T.S members for $79.99 a pair they are better then the AT 831 IMHO.

Pm me if your interested there is a add in Yardsale with a recording sample made with these mics.

Chris Church

They probably are. Have you (or anyone you have sold them to) run them head to head with AT831s in a stealth situation? Still willing to do this if you'll let me test 'em 

[beefstew]

i have the SP-CMC-19s
i like them
they get the job done

[Church-Audio]

You can also try my mics I have a sale on now for T.S members for $79.99 a pair they are better then the AT 831 IMHO.

Pm me if your interested there is a add in Yardsale with a recording sample made with these mics.

Chris Church

They probably are. Have you (or anyone you have sold them to) run them head to head with AT831s in a stealth situation? Still willing to do this if you'll let me test 'em 

There are many members here that have my Cardioid mics I did have them in the loaner program for a while.

Chris Church