Topic: Taping Symphony Orch from front row centre with cards/hypers: should I bother?

[whatboutbob]

Subject just about says it all. I’ve only got cards or hypers (see sig). I’ll be front row centre. Should I bother taping or leave the mics at home and enjoy the evening?  If I give it a shot, what config would you recommend?

I figure omnis might have a chance of coming out ok…but the only omnis I have lying around are giant squids…which have been gathering dust for quite some time.

Thanks all.

[Billy Mumphrey]

I've stealthed my local orchestra with at831x's > wmod fw-410. I believe I was center third row, I might have even been in the first or second row, don't remember. anyway, they were fixed cards in a mesh hat, pretty much "binaural" or at least baffled, they were right above my ears. the sound was so much better than I expected, it was a hassle but it was worth it, even the dithered 16 -bit sounds onderful. DO IT. acoustic taping is so much more rewarding IMHO.

[divamum]

I regularly tape my opera performances and, while I prefer my omnis, I started out by using a pair of AT831s and got some good rec's using them. 

The main reason I switched to omnis was because I'm performing and have to hand of my stealth bag to other people, and couldn't guarantee they'd be pointing the mics the right direction!

But yeah, why not? Nothing to lose.  Hardest thing I find with taping acoustic is that the dynamic range is so wide I"m always compromising one end of the spectrum or the other;  lately I've been guessing better levels (I seldom have a chance to check them and rely on the Hope and PRayer school of setting the dials) but In the past I've generally erred on the side of too low.  This means no clipping, but then I get more noise than I like after boosting in post.   That said, I find it easier to live with too much hiss than distortion in the loud parts.....

[WiFiJeff]

In most halls you'll do very well with binaural omnis from anywhere in the first few rows, but for a violin concerto you want to be as close to right in front of the soloist as possible, same for other string soloists and singers.  Omnis will generally give a better recording than cards, and best is DPA4060s>MMA6000 or the tiny Sankens.  It takes practice to get levels right, the dynamic range can be huge, which is why 24 bits is a blessing here, especially if your recorder is quiet enough to make at least 18 bits real (so you can do 12 dB boosts without losing anything).

Jeff

[divamum]

, which is why 24 bits is a blessing here, especially if your recorder is quiet enough to make at least 18 bits real (so you can do 12 dB boosts without losing anything).

Jeff

Ok, not to shanghai the thread, but you can explain to me how the bit rate improves things on this score?  As you'll know from my other posts recently I'm hoping to move to a 24bit/4060 setup, but I didn't realise that going from 16--->24 would actually help me with the problems encountered w/the wide dynamic ranges.... which would be AWESOME!!   I thought the improvement was just greater detail (due ot more information being captured).  Man, this projected new setup is getting more attractive by the day....

[RebelRebel]

check out this post on setting levels...   http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69144.msg929333#msg929333   


as for cards or hypers...if it is a bad hall..Cards all the way. Cards also get rid of chatty concert goers better. If you arent stealthing, ORTF is my suggestion.

, which is why 24 bits is a blessing here, especially if your recorder is quiet enough to make at least 18 bits real (so you can do 12 dB boosts without losing anything).

Jeff

Ok, not to shanghai the thread, but you can explain to me how the bit rate improves things on this score?  As you'll know from my other posts recently I'm hoping to move to a 24bit/4060 setup, but I didn't realise that going from 16--->24 would actually help me with the problems encountered w/the wide dynamic ranges.... which would be AWESOME!!   I thought the improvement was just greater detail (due ot more information being captured).  Man, this projected new setup is getting more attractive by the day....

[WiFiJeff]

as for cards or hypers...if it is a bad hall..Cards all the way. Cards also get rid of chatty concert goers better. If you arent stealthing, ORTF is my suggestion.

Jeff's rule: there are no bad halls for orchestra from the front row center.  Well, okay, that's not quite true, but close enough.  And for much 19th-20th C. music the orchestra will be loud enough so that your sound/noise ratio is okay even if the crowd isn't totally silent (but a loud cougher behind you is the pits whatever mics you use).  I think ORTF is out for the situation described in the start of the thread, if not I must live in the wrong city.

Teddy, I ran the Josephson C617s Friday with Gefell LD MK102.1 caps, as separated omnis about 50cm apart.  For piano, this is truly amazing, I think I'm gonna run this rig on all straight piano taping.  For sting quartet, I expect to continue to use a baffle with omnis for realistic stereo, LSD2 or (if I spring for it) Neumann SU69 for violin and piano.  But the unbaffled omnis on piano worked much better than I expected.

Jeff

[RebelRebel]

Yes, those Gefells are awesome eh!!??? Jeff, I HIGHLY reccomend the AKG 426B for a stereo mic...man, there is NOTHING that thing can not do well! I use mine on every job!

ah..hes stealthing!

as for cards or hypers...if it is a bad hall..Cards all the way. Cards also get rid of chatty concert goers better. If you arent stealthing, ORTF is my suggestion.

Jeff's rule: there are no bad halls for orchestra from the front row center.  Well, okay, that's not quite true, but close enough.  And for much 19th-20th C. music the orchestra will be loud enough so that your sound/noise ratio is okay even if the crowd isn't totally silent (but a loud cougher behind you is the pits whatever mics you use).  I think ORTF is out for the situation described in the start of the thread, if not I must live in the wrong city.

Teddy, I ran the Josephson C617s Friday with Gefell LD MK102.1 caps, as separated omnis about 50cm apart.  For piano, this is truly amazing, I think I'm gonna run this rig on all straight piano taping.  For sting quartet, I expect to continue to use a baffle with omnis for realistic stereo, LSD2 or (if I spring for it) Neumann SU69 for violin and piano.  But the unbaffled omnis on piano worked much better than I expected.

Jeff

[muj]

as for cards or hypers...if it is a bad hall..Cards all the way. Cards also get rid of chatty concert goers better. If you arent stealthing, ORTF is my suggestion.

Jeff's rule: there are no bad halls for orchestra from the front row center.  Well, okay, that's not quite true, but close enough.  And for much 19th-20th C. music the orchestra will be loud enough so that your sound/noise ratio is okay even if the crowd isn't totally silent (but a loud cougher behind you is the pits whatever mics you use).  I think ORTF is out for the situation described in the start of the thread, if not I must live in the wrong city.

Teddy, I ran the Josephson C617s Friday with Gefell LD MK102.1 caps, as separated omnis about 50cm apart.  For piano, this is truly amazing, I think I'm gonna run this rig on all straight piano taping.  For sting quartet, I expect to continue to use a baffle with omnis for realistic stereo, LSD2 or (if I spring for it) Neumann SU69 for violin and piano.  But the unbaffled omnis on piano worked much better than I expected.

Jeff

those mk 102 caps have j-lo ass!!! OMG amazing bass resolution  , i am happy you took my advice

[WiFiJeff]

[those mk 102 caps have j-lo ass!!! OMG amazing bass resolution  , i am happy you took my advice

Yeah, they bit a chunk out of my bank account but so far no regrets.  Not to mention the supernerd factor of setting up a stand with a Sabra Som bar, shock mounts, the Josephson body, the LD adapter and then screwing on the caps like I'm preparing to do brain surgery.  It just screams "Attention People, there's serious audio shit going on here."

Jeff

[RebelRebel]

it can't do ortf, split omni, oss, din, nos, etc.

Yeah, I know...I meant that there is no job that it doesnt sound good on. It is easily my best piece. Desert island, as it were..