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Author Topic: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!  (Read 7431 times)

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Offline floete

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edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« on: October 30, 2006, 07:40:20 AM »


the real world is a far different place than a designer's lab, because in the real world, with real people at the controls, anything that can go wrong will go wrong at some point.  i don't know how your basic portable cassette recorder controls evolved but they're close to perfect at this point, given that push-button controls offer a tactile understanding of what's going on in addition to the visual.  the only issues i've found are with the crappy add-ons, like VOR and tape-speed doubling.  a nervous unconscious hand in the middle of a tense situation can easily fiddle with those *slide* switches and mess you up.  but there's an easy solution: put tape over 'em.  voila, problem solved.

up until recently i loved the edirol r-09.  but i'm a reporter who often finds myself in tense situations where my idle hands can easily become the devil's playthings and that was recently the case -- i returned home after recording some MIGHTY interesting and strange things said by a one-time presidential candidate only to find that i'd somehow turned the mike levels down to absolute zero.  IOW, when I opened the recording up in cool edit pro what i saw on the screen was a flat line.  let me tell you i went right out and got drunk.

i don't know how i did it, and i know it was my fault, but my point is, designers should take f***-ups like me into account when they design these devices.  in this case, how?  for one thing, if I could use AGC, I would, but with the edirol it's absolutely useless -- far worse than any tape recorder i've ever used.  so i'm forced to go with manual level setting.  okay.  there's that.  then the problem becomes, i think, that if you're gripping the device solidly, there's a good chance that your fingers might land right on the input-level buttons and start changing the settings.  or maybe i was searching for the power button and hit those other buttons instead.  in any event, even knowing these things now, there's no way to prevent problems in the future: you can't tape over the controls to keep them in place.  i know the thing has visual meters but in a heated situation, can you really be keeping a conscious eye on them all the time?

I could turn the HOLD function on.  And I mostly do that.  But there are times when I need to be able to pause the recording instantly or turn it off completely and you can't do that with HOLD on.

This raises another real world issue: there's no way to *positively* know when record is on and when its off without looking at the device.  On a tape recorder, you can feel if the button is down or not but with the edirol you have to actually look at it and in stealthy situations that's a real drag.  Plus, when you're going into record mode you actually have to press the record button twice, which is not the way people are used to turning things on; it goes against everything we've learned since birth, i think.

I've got other issues with the thing, too.  for one: the hold button is so flat to the surface that it's both hard to move and hard to know if it's been moved.

there is a solution, of course, and that's to give the device the same functions in the same control layout as the plainest of portable cassette recorders.  it wouldn't look nearly as cool, but it would certainly work better for most of us or at least for those of us for whom stealth is a concern.  again, i know i'm the one at fault here but i like to think that companies should spend more time thinking about how to minimize operator error than they currently do.

end of freaked-out rant and thanks for listening.  now i must get me back to another drink ...

Roving Sign

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2006, 08:16:19 AM »
Get something else for your reporter duty - who needs 24/96 for a couple of quotes...?

Plenty of little digital voice recorders out there...might be better for this purpose...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 09:23:15 AM by Roving Sign »

Offline gewwang

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2006, 08:46:39 AM »
Thanks for your rant. Many of the reasons why you hate the R-09, are features that make it great for concert stealth recording.

For instance you rant "the hold button is so flat to the surface that it's both hard to move and hard to know if it's been moved", that gives me peace of mind that I am not accidently disengaging the hold button when the R-09's sitting in my pocket and I get body-slammed by some 16 year old punk in the mosh pit at a Korn show.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2006, 09:57:11 AM »
Bummer about your loss... We've all lost audio at one time or another and I find it hurts most when it isn't a technical failure but operator error on the device.

Sometimes it is the gear.. But other times it just isn't the gear.  Like when I had a power cord problem recently.  I wanted to blame the cord and it felt good to rant about it.. But the fact is, I was the one who introduced a new preamp to my rig but did not do an adequate wiggle test on the power cord.  That it LOOKED really solid meant nothing once my source was very damaged

In terms of post-mortem.. You didn't check that you were recording and had levels when starting, didn't use in-ear monitoring, didn't use the hold switch. Perhaps biggest of all, you didn't practice with the recorder.  The recorder is not to blame..

You can go back to casette or develop workflow practices that are more compatible with the current technology and the importance of what you are recording.

I'm a little surprised that you tried to record something so important without a way to continuously monitor and without a backup secondary device.

Offline floete

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 12:04:19 PM »
i'm a little surprised, too, freelunch.  otoh, i had used the recorder, with backup, a number of times in equally important situations -- and did so with no problems.  i guess i got a little cocky.  and we all know what happens when that happens!

my rant aside, i do know that my operator mistakes were sufficiently searing that i don't think they'll happen again.  i learned a number of lessons -- the kind that only pain can teach.

at this pt, i't'd be pretty difficult to go back to a plain-jane recorder or a less sophisticated digital device.  i like the mikes on this thing too much -- as well as the fact that i can record for a long long time without having to change recording mediums.  in the future, i'm going to use the hold button without fail, forget about the pause button entirely, check the audio levels every now and then, and get some kind of back-up device to just let run in my backback.

thanks, all, for letting me rant.  i do know that i have no one to blame but myself.  but it does sometimes feel good to spread it around a little, just to take the pressure off.

pax.

dorrcoq

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 03:38:38 PM »
Did you try to amplify the file in Cool Edit "just in case"?

RebelRebel

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 03:40:06 PM »
you need the Nagra ARES M ;)
i'm a little surprised, too, freelunch.  otoh, i had used the recorder, with backup, a number of times in equally important situations -- and did so with no problems.  i guess i got a little cocky.  and we all know what happens when that happens!

my rant aside, i do know that my operator mistakes were sufficiently searing that i don't think they'll happen again.  i learned a number of lessons -- the kind that only pain can teach.

at this pt, i't'd be pretty difficult to go back to a plain-jane recorder or a less sophisticated digital device.  i like the mikes on this thing too much -- as well as the fact that i can record for a long long time without having to change recording mediums.  in the future, i'm going to use the hold button without fail, forget about the pause button entirely, check the audio levels every now and then, and get some kind of back-up device to just let run in my backback.

thanks, all, for letting me rant.  i do know that i have no one to blame but myself.  but it does sometimes feel good to spread it around a little, just to take the pressure off.

pax.

Offline floete

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2006, 04:30:03 PM »
yup, tried to amplify w/ cool edit -- instead of silence i get buckets of hiss.

btw / the thing that worries me most about the whole experience is that, for the life of me, i can't actually figure out for sure how the levels got turned down to zero.  it happened in the middle of a recording.  i can watch on cool edit the levels go *instantly* to zero, with no ramp down, as if i'd turned the machine off, which obviously i did not do, since the recording continued.

i'm going to do an experiment.  i'm going to put the machine on record about where the levels were and see what happens when i reduce them to zero.  i would expect a gradual fade.  but that's not what i got in the field.

hmmmm.  curiouser and curiouser, maybe.

Offline Kyle

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 04:30:48 PM »
you need the Nagra ARES M ;)

If it was capable of more than one GB and 1648 resoluton, I think we would have a winner....
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RebelRebel

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 04:35:53 PM »
you need the Nagra ARES M ;)

If it was capable of more than one GB and 1648 resoluton, I think we would have a winner....

well, for recording interviews, it would be a dream. who wants to hear 24 bits of hot air? :D

Offline floete

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2006, 04:41:25 PM »
well, doesn't that beat all.  just as i expected and knew would happen, if you record while pressing the input level button, you do indeed get a gradual fade.

so how come my recording went from something to nothing in a flash?  any thoughts?  i've listened to it again and call tell that i'm not fiddling with the device -- i.e. there's no rustling on the recording, no indication that the levels are being messed with.

uh oh.


dorrcoq

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 04:44:50 PM »
Did your battery die?

Offline floete

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2006, 04:59:27 PM »
nope; plus, if the battery had died, all functions would have stopped.  the recording continues for about another hour.  then, the next day, i started recording again, for several hours -- with the same flat-line response.  when i did notice the levels were at zero, i had no trouble raising them.  but how did they get turned down?  arf!

Offline gewwang

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2006, 04:59:47 PM »
Maybe switched the mic gain from high to low on the back?

Offline floete

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Re: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2006, 05:26:01 PM »
nope, the gain switch is where it's always been.

baring some weird internal malfunction, all i can think of at this pt is that i somehow put the recorder on pause, somehow reduced the input levels to zero, then went back into record-on mode.  but again i don't hear the rustling i have always heard when i'm actually handling the recorder.  btw/ i'm using the built-in mics so it's not like something got unplugged.  i'm baffled.

 

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