Topic: Help me find a digital recorder

[bzhayes]

Hi all,

My wife is a musician (tromboneist) and needs a good digital recorder to tape practice sessions, make audition cd's, and the occasional gig.  Right now she is using a Sharp minidisc player (then transfering by analog out to the computer).  I'd like to get her a nice compact digital device that can record as well or better that her minidisc.  Reading this board, it looks like the Edirol R-09 is exactly what I am looking for.  My only problem is the price tag ($350 ~ $450).  I am wondering if anyone can recomend a device that is less than $200 that is still good for live recording?

I spent quiet a bit of time a year and a half ago when her previous minidisc broke, but it seems like most of the cheap mp3 players that can record are intentionaly crippled by the manufactorer for what ever reason.

[dorrcoq]

I think the new Zoom H4 lists for $299, so you can probably get it for a bit less than that if you phone around.  Not likely to be below $200 though

[flintstone]

The digital recorder that does a better job of recording than your Sharp minidisc machine,
AND that costs less than $200 is ... a Sony Hi-MD recorder!

Hi-MD allows you to record in 16/44.1 WAV file format (that's CD quality).  You can upload
the recorded material in digital form to your PC using Sony's Sonic Stage software and a
USB connection.  Hi-MD discs cost as little as $4, and can be re-used hundreds of times.

To purchase a Hi-MD machine in your price range, you'll have to look online for discontinued
models.  A company called Shewas, Inc in CA sells new MZ-NH700 and MZ-NH800 Hi-MD models
for $150.   See  http://www.shewasinc.com/minidisc.html

You can buy the same models through an eBay auction for about $125, when shipping
is included.  If you are willing to purchase a used Hi-MD, then you can find Hi-MD recorders
for less than $100.

Some concert tapers are not enthusiastic about Hi-MD because a Hi-MD disc's capacity
is 94 minutes of stereo recordings.  That's inconvenient when the concert is long,
and the breaks in the program are unpredictable.   Your note makes me think this
limitation is not as important in your case.

Remember that the minidisc is only one link in the chain that produces the final recording.
If you use the mics and cables that you now own, chances are that the final recording made
using any Hi-MD or flash memory recorder will sound a lot like your current Sharp minidisc.

Flintstone

[bzhayes]

Thanks for the reply,

I should have mentioned in my original post why she owns a Sharp MD instead of Sony HI-MD.  My wife absolutely hates Sony MD players (HI or not).  Something about how the recording levels reset themselves and cannot be saved.  I am not exactly sure.  It was a big enough deal for her that she bought what I thnk might have been one of the last Sharp MD's left in the market.

I was really hoping that one of these big consumer mp3 companies would release a product that can record at MD or HI-MD quality.  From an emgineering perspective it seems a lot easier to read and write flash memory than it does an MD.  Plus it should be able to be done in a smaller case.  It is odd to me than no-one makes a nice compact $100-$200 player that can do this.

The Edirol R-09 looks real nice, but its expensive.  The Zoom H4 also looks great (and is a little bit cheaper) but it seems kinda clunky at 6" long.  BTW I spent a lot time looking for the dimensions on these things.  I'll post them here so hopefully somebody else is able to find them more quickly: R-09 = 2.5" x 4.06" x 1.19", H4 = 2.76" x 6.01" x 1.38"

[flintstone]

The new Sony MZ-RH1 retains your settings from one session to the
next (at last!).  But at ~$300, it's outside your price range.

Flintstone

[halleyscomet8]

you should check out the iriver h-120. great little bit bucket

[bzhayes]

you should check out the iriver h-120. great little bit bucket

By bit bucket I am guessing you mean using the digital input.  How are the recordings from the analog line in?  How does it compare to MD or HD-MD?

If you are using digital in is there a compact, decent quality, relatively inexpensive device to get from mic to digital?

H120 looks closer to the kind of thing I am looking for.  To get decent recordings it sounds like you have to use rockbox.  I am pretty sure I would be able to install it, but I guess I am a little hesitant since Iriver stopped production.  I am an engineer, so I like to see components using all of the latest and greatest stuff out there.  I guess for marketing reason, niche tasks are sometimes better performed using outdated technology.

[flintstone]

I own a Hi-MD recorder and a couple of h120s and an h320.
The Hi-MD preamp introduces noticeably less hissy noise when
you crank up the preamp volume.    All three sound OK when
the preamp volume is kept low.

All Hi-MD models and the iRiver h120 have digital optical inputs,
so both types can be used as a bit bucket.  The Hi-MD has the
94 minute recording limit per disc, while the h120 has many
hours of space on its hard disc.

Flintstone

[guysonic]

Thanks for the reply,

I should have mentioned in my original post why she owns a Sharp MD instead of Sony HI-MD.  My wife absolutely hates Sony MD players (HI or not).  Something about how the recording levels reset themselves and cannot be saved.  I am not exactly sure.  It was a big enough deal for her that she bought what I thnk might have been one of the last Sharp MD's left in the market.

I was really hoping that one of these big consumer mp3 companies would release a product that can record at MD or HI-MD quality.  From an emgineering perspective it seems a lot easier to read and write flash memory than it does an MD.  Plus it should be able to be done in a smaller case.  It is odd to me than no-one makes a nice compact $100-$200 player that can do this.

The Edirol R-09 looks real nice, but its expensive.  The Zoom H4 also looks great (and is a little bit cheaper) but it seems kinda clunky at 6" long.  BTW I spent a lot time looking for the dimensions on these things.  I'll post them here so hopefully somebody else is able to find them more quickly: R-09 = 2.5" x 4.06" x 1.19", H4 = 2.76" x 6.01" x 1.38"

Okay, since you are technically into the subject I'm going to go out on a limb (for me) and offer any of the Sharp MD decks I have here in storage with less than 50 hours recording use time (two have less than 10). 

I didn't want to sell these because they use internal user replaceable lithium battery ('gum stick') that should be nearly useless by now, but don't know the battery condition so these are functional working virtually new decks, but also sold working, battery AS-IS.  I think to have all the accessories and original box with 'side-car' AA battery holder, but have to check for sure.

Models available here are older, heavier, and larger (2) MD-MS722 at $125 each, and very compact (1) MD-MT821 for $175, and (1) MD-MT90 for $250 that uses (2)AA cells of any type; obviously really don't want to sell this one, but your choice.

Images and some specs for these models found on page: www.sonicstudios.com/mdms722.htm

[petur]

H120 looks closer to the kind of thing I am looking for.  To get decent recordings it sounds like you have to use rockbox.  I am pretty sure I would be able to install it, but I guess I am a little hesitant since Iriver stopped production.  I am an engineer, so I like to see components using all of the latest and greatest stuff out there.  I guess for marketing reason, niche tasks are sometimes better performed using outdated technology.

The iriver h1x0 doesn't count as outdated technology unless you count monochrome LCD as outdated of course. Looking at battery life, build quality and possibilities it's still a player to consider. And cheap too if you look around on eBay (one of the RockBox devs bought a new one this week, with full warranty).
Definitely get RockBox on it to enjoy all the possibilities the hardware offers. And the community is a great support channel if you have questions

The h120 can be upgraded to a h140 by installing a more recent harddisk (just make sure to get a single platter 40GB, not dual platter), and battery life can be increased with a higher performance version (if 16+ hours are not enough )

As far as analog in is concerned, the quality is quite decent if you keep the gain levels low on the iriver (use external amp).

[dallman]

It would seem to me that an inexpensive easy solution is a used JB3. Thay certainly are easy to find, and with the push to CF recorders and all of us getting new toys, they are inexpensive. The new stuff is smaller and sexier, but the JB3 is easy to use, lots of storage, optical and analog, multiple battery storage, and extremely versatile.

I'd sell mine, as I have no use for it, but I find that I cannot bring myself to say goodbye to it. When I switched from my Sharp MD to the JB3 a few years ago, it was the biggest single jump I have made in ease and sound quality in the 30 + years I have been taping.

Look for the T-Mod version (trombone)

[bzhayes]

Thanks everyone for all of your helpful advice.  I know it is sometimes anoying when a newbie shows up and starts asking questions on a forum without having ever contributed anything.  You guys have been truly gracious.

I think I am centering in on an h120.  She has been talking about getting an MP3 player so I can kill two birds with one stone.  I think I'll scan ebay for a while until a good deal comes along.  As always if anyone else has a new insight, I would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks!

[gewwang]

http://www.pgoelz.com/edirol_r1_main.html

http://www.pgoelz.com/edirol_r1_recordings.html

The Edirol R-1 came out in April 2005 and was discontinued in June 2006 when the R-09 came out.
Out of your <$200 price range but it would be perfect for your wife's situation. Someone had a refurbished one on ebay a few weeks ago for like $270 but since it's discontinued the price will keep going down.

[Mike R.]

How about recording directly to your computer?  If you have a laptop, it can even be portable.  You'll probably be better off with an external  mic->usb audio preamp than the ADC in a typical laptop.  I'm not really up on what's available, but if you're interested, I'm sure somebody here would have recommendations.

In your $200 price range, I too would usually suggest minidisc.

[bzhayes]

recording to laptop is an interesting idea.  Does anybody know of a resonably priced (<$100) mic to usb set-up like mrosenlof suggested?