Topic: SAX>722 issue

[Todd R]

Has anyone ever wired two wally lions serially? I didn't think you could do that with those packs.

I tried it, and it didn't work.  I'm almost positive leegeddy tried it and it didn't work.  So I'd say this is out as an option.

They now make "9v" li-ion cells, such as these:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2373

They provide 400mah, so they should run the sax for 4 hours or so, if they work.  I say if, since these are only 7.5v nominally, not 9v.  But with 2, that still gives 15v to the sax, which should be enough I'd guess.  The sax might be set up to shut down if the internal batteries are so low in voltage, even if it is providing within the 12-18v.  I'd imagine the low battery indicator is sure to be flashing though.

[shaggy]

Has anyone ever wired two wally lions serially? I didn't think you could do that with those packs.

I tried it, and it didn't work.  I'm almost positive leegeddy tried it and it didn't work.  So I'd say this is out as an option.

They now make "9v" li-ion cells, such as these:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2373

They provide 400mah, so they should run the sax for 4 hours or so, if they work.  I say if, since these are only 7.5v nominally, not 9v.  But with 2, that still gives 15v to the sax, which should be enough I'd guess.  The sax might be set up to shut down if the internal batteries are so low in voltage, even if it is providing within the 12-18v.  I'd imagine the low battery indicator is sure to be flashing though.

Not true, it powers the unit. These 5400mAH Li-Ions provide true 9V.  I had Marc make me a serial cable for the 2XLi-Ions > VRBox and a pass thru (as well as 5 and 6V outs, I am trying to sell this box and cables here).  I ran it two times BUT the caveat is that the Sax has some sort of ground loop issue, there is lo-level hum if I hooked up the SBM in the mix or the JB3 (in analog in mode).  I think silentmark can confirm this issue (tho I do not know if he used 2 X 9V Li-Ions as the power source) so it is not a one off of my old Sax. 

Also, I can power the Sax with a 15V 10XAA sled of GP Alkalines for 10-12 hours (I have done this two times).  You are right, about an hour in the quick flashing starts but that is a low voltage indicator when the voltage drops below 14.5 (says 14V in the manual but I think it does it a tad higher than that).

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I really don't think they can be combined in series.  All lion batteries supposedly have a circuit to prevent short circuits and to shut down the battery if the voltage drops below a certain level.  That's because a direct short can cause a cell to vent or explode.

Impedance is another problem with this.  In the case of that 9v, if one battery has more or less charge than the other, the impedance will be different.  That can cause probs with lions. I think you might need a special controller to assemble specific size combinations.  That might work but it seems pretty risky.

[shaggy]

Well, they worked in the field for a couple of hours for me without shutting down or exploding.  I asked Marc before he made the cable if he thought it was gonna work.  Apparantly he did because he made the cable and the pass thru mod on his box.  He didn't have a Sax to test it (so he didn't know about the ground loop issue).  Despite some problems people have had with these batts (having to rest them when they trip), I haven't had that issue ever.  They are the standard Wally World ones (ESA brand).  Both batteries are holding up well, powering the UA-5s without any worries on my part.

[silentmark]

Has anyone ever wired two wally lions serially? I didn't think you could do that with those packs.

I tried it, and it didn't work.  I'm almost positive leegeddy tried it and it didn't work.  So I'd say this is out as an option.

They now make "9v" li-ion cells, such as these:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2373

They provide 400mah, so they should run the sax for 4 hours or so, if they work.  I say if, since these are only 7.5v nominally, not 9v.  But with 2, that still gives 15v to the sax, which should be enough I'd guess.  The sax might be set up to shut down if the internal batteries are so low in voltage, even if it is providing within the 12-18v.  I'd imagine the low battery indicator is sure to be flashing though.

I know I can run 2 walmarts through your Juice Box as I got it to power my MT and the sax, but as shaggy said there is a loop issue or something with the sax. Both devices will work alone through the JB, but not together. I am not sure if that is in series or parallel ...

[Nick Graham]

Leegeddy built me a cable to run 2 Wal-Mart l-ions in a series, and it works fine. Not sure when he made Shaggy's, but mine was definitely later, as he had a Sonosax to test it with. It's just a 2 plugs (one for each 9v) into a single plug for the sax. I don't remember all the details at the time (and those PMs are long gone), but he found a way around the ground issue.

I'd take a pic, but it's actually packed up to go to Jon Merrin tomorrow.

[Todd R]

I know I can run 2 walmarts through your Juice Box as I got it to power my MT and the sax, but as shaggy said there is a loop issue or something with the sax. Both devices will work alone through the JB, but not together. I am not sure if that is in series or parallel ...

Thanks Mark (and Shaggy) for jogging my memory.  I knew the cable I made for you wasn't working right, forgot the details. I've just kept it in the back of my mind not to do it.  Interesting to hear Marc made a cable that did work without the ground loop problems.  I never had a sax to test with, so I had just tried a straight serial cable approach which isn't viable (at least not in all situations).

Forgetting the need for festival powering or an external battery solution, I'd be curious how those li-ion "9v" batteries work.  Seems like a nice solution for stealth when you don't want an external pack.

[shaggy]

Again, the ground loop issue occurs when the Sax and another piece of gear is hooked into the VRbox, the Sax > said gear has to be connected via analog in order for it to happen.  Sax alone, no ground loop.  I talked to Marc about it a few times via email but that was Sept-Oct 2005, that is when the wheels started to come off with his dealing with people on ts.com.  Now I use the Ultralifes or if I feel like a cheap-ass, a bunch of 100yen alkalines.