Topic: iRiver h120 - this easy?

[mo]

Is it really as simple as getting a ditigal mic and recording digital to the iRiver? Can I then just move the WAV files over to the PC?

Anyone here have a preference for analogue recording for the iriver?

Will this sort of mic get me a half decent recording?

Also I read on another thread i may need somehtign extra because the mic won't be able to record the sound properly for rock concerts - am i right / wrong or will an EXTERNAL mic be able to handle it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STEREO-MINIDISC-LAPTOP-ELECTRET-MICROPHONE-MIC_W0QQitemZ250080892131QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15056QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-ECM-DS70P-Stereo-Microphone_W0QQitemZ190079541145QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15056QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[shaggy]

These are not digital mics.  These are analog mics and everything that people use on this board, except maybe one or two of us here with extraordinary sums of money, use analog mics.  Digital mics are very new technology...and even they use analog transducers albeit with AD (analog to digital)converters in the mic bodies.

The H120 makes hard drive noises, you need to isolate your recorder from the mics itself (run a mini to mini cable from mic to H120) or it will pick up the RAM flushes to the HD (every 2m 10sec if you record in WAV, far less than that if you use rockbox and record in MP3).  The SONY mic will overload very easily in loud environments but if you run rockbox it should do it a bit less (rockbox will provide an improved 3.3 volts of plugin power).  That other hand made thing looks like its got some Panasonic WM61 caps in it, you still need to isolate it but it should be a little better at handling loud rock than the ECM-DS70P, again you need to run rockbox so it will provide higher plug-in power or else these mics will sound like static at loud rock shows.

What you need is a battery box to provide at least 5-6V to your mics. 

This guy, Alchemy, is selling a cheap mic on this board (good reputation):

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,78976.msg1050644.html#msg1050644

I am guessing an offer of about 10-15 pounds would be fair.  It will not overload as easy as the ECM-DS70P but still might overload in very loud situations.  Cheap mics yield cheap results.

A guy here named Church Audio has exactly what you are looking for if you can spend a bit more.  The sale has ended but I think the regular price is still under 100 quid.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,78199.msg1041163.html#msg1041163

AND of course....you need rockbox, the firmware on the H120 makes little glitches every 30 seconds....if you listen carefully, you will be able to hear them.

so get rockbox (it's free and much much better than the iriver firmware)

http://www.rockbox.org

[mo]

Hi

Thanks for the reply

I want to record with a digital mic - so I need an optical mic right?

I am fine to use a wire to leave a long gap bewteen the recorder and mic (plus I can keep the recorder hidden).

So what exactly do I need to do to ensure the mic can record properly (uee rockbox software - whcih i will do) - can ya explain the pwoer thign a bit better? where can i buy them (other one on here is sold) and how would i connect to a optical mic?

I notice the guy was advertising it as a 'pre amp' - can you explain what this does exactly and why its needed? and any decent palces to get them in the uk?

[shaggy]

No, you need an analog mic like those you got in the links above.  sorry I was correcting myself after I reread your post.

Optical is for something like an outboard AD like a SONY SBM or a Denecke AD20.  The AD in the H120 is decent but far from the quality as these outboards. 

So, yes a regular mini-male to mini-female cable will work for these mics.  The kind of cable used for earbud extensions will work.

A mic pre is a device that provides gain to line-levels.  The H120 has a pretty amazing gain section for what it is.  You can pull a decent recording off with it alone (no pre or AD).  What you really need is a decent mic.  Church Audio sells these Sennheiser mics with batt box/pre combos for a very decent price.  You could also go with Core-Sound or Sound Professional gear but for the money at the moment, I think Church provides the best value for the money (and you just missed a great sale!).  You are looking in the 100-150 pound region to get to this level.  Quite different from what you are going to spend on these plug-in power mics you have listed.

FYI, I do not know Chris Church nor has he paid me to hype his stuff.  I just go on what has been posted on DAD or other Bittorrent sites.  Pretty decent stuff.  The mics are also cardioids (directional) so they won't pick up as much crowd noise.  THey are set up so you just clip them to your head (glasses or hat ideally), and provide a quasi-binaural set up and sound (life -ike with headphones).

Warning: this hobby will lead you down a very slippery slope.  Start saving your pences now.

[nkramar78]

Warning: this hobby will lead you down a very slippery slope.  Start saving your pences now.

Too true.

[mo]

lol - i am the worst for spending laods of money on thigns i do not even follow up with !

So if I use a ANALOG mic it will still record in to the iRiver and convert it to digital WAV then right?

So apart from the iRiver and good quality Mic what other seperate things do I need? (Do I need a a/d converter that I been reading on ehre about then) - and also this pre-amp thing!

[Church-Audio]

No, you need an analog mic like those you got in the links above.  sorry I was correcting myself after I reread your post.

Optical is for something like an outboard AD like a SONY SBM or a Denecke AD20.  The AD in the H120 is decent but far from the quality as these outboards. 

So, yes a regular mini-male to mini-female cable will work for these mics.  The kind of cable used for earbud extensions will work.

A mic pre is a device that provides gain to line-levels.  The H120 has a pretty amazing gain section for what it is.  You can pull a decent recording off with it alone (no pre or AD).  What you really need is a decent mic.  Church Audio sells these Sennheiser mics with batt box/pre combos for a very decent price.  You could also go with Core-Sound or Sound Professional gear but for the money at the moment, I think Church provides the best value for the money (and you just missed a great sale!).  You are looking in the 100-150 pound region to get to this level.  Quite different from what you are going to spend on these plug-in power mics you have listed.

FYI, I do not know Chris Church nor has he paid me to hype his stuff.  I just go on what has been posted on DAD or other Bittorrent sites.  Pretty decent stuff.  The mics are also cardioids (directional) so they won't pick up as much crowd noise.  THey are set up so you just clip them to your head (glasses or hat ideally), and provide a quasi-binaural set up and sound (life -ike with headphones).

Warning: this hobby will lead you down a very slippery slope.  Start saving your pences now.

Cheques in the mail ( dam did I say that out loud )

[petur]

lol - i am the worst for spending laods of money on thigns i do not even follow up with !

So if I use a ANALOG mic it will still record in to the iRiver and convert it to digital WAV then right?

So apart from the iRiver and good quality Mic what other seperate things do I need? (Do I need a a/d converter that I been reading on ehre about then) - and also this pre-amp thing!

The iriver has an A/D that will do the trick. If you're looking for cheap mics don't go looking for external A/D's and optical connections. For loud rock concerts you need at least a battery box or pre-amp and mics that can handle high SPLs. I had some troubles finding the ones that did it for me, Chris (Church-Audio) can tell you all about it   (his gear comes highly recommended but don't get the omni's, they pick up a lot of bass on loud concerts and get overloaded. The cardoids are fine)

[George]

So if I use a ANALOG mic it will still record in to the iRiver and convert it to digital WAV then right?

So apart from the iRiver and good quality Mic what other seperate things do I need? (Do I need a a/d converter that I been reading on ehre about then) - and also this pre-amp thing!

Yes, when you install rockbox on your iriver, in the record menu you will select wav and stereo sound and recording in wav.  To transfer files off of your iriver, simply plug it into your pc via a usb cable and you can drag and drop your wav recordings over to your pc.  Besides a mic and the iriver, a battery box is essential to provide enough power to your mics.

So, your rig would work like this: mics>plug into battery box>battery box plugs into line in on your iriver 

You would need one 1/8" to 1/8" (3.5mm?) cable to connect your iriver to the battery box.  These are standard cables and can be purchased anywhere. 

You don't need an a/d converter. 

A preamp is a little different from a battery box, a preamp has gain built into it...a battery box does not. 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[mo]

So would I benefit from using a pre amp rather than a battery box with the iRiver> what are the price differences in general? (does a pre amp functio nas a battery box as well?)

I am looking to record loud rock concerts!

[petur]

I got myself a pre-amp + mics from church-audio. Highly recommended. I mostly tape loud rock concerts. If I see it correctly I got these:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/STEREO-PREAMP-MICS-4-MINDISC-DAT-EDIROL-R09-MICRO-BR_W0QQitemZ260072905972QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3281QQcmdZViewItem except I have the ST-9100

don't take (the) omnis, they overloaded on loud shows. The cardoids work fine (except if you point them to the PA when you're only 2m away from it )

I'm sure Chris (church-audio) can provide you details

[George]

So would I benefit from using a pre amp rather than a battery box with the iRiver> what are the price differences in general? (does a pre amp functio nas a battery box as well?)

I am looking to record loud rock concerts!

Talk to chris church about prices.  He can fill you in on that.  As far as I know, the main difference between a preamp and a battery box is that a preamp provides additional gain via a switch and phantom power (which is beneficial for loud concerts because the mics are less likely to distort since the SPL is raised on the mics).  Talk to chris as well on this topic, maybe he can enlighten you more on the difference between a bbox and a preamp. 

[Church-Audio]

So would I benefit from using a pre amp rather than a battery box with the iRiver> what are the price differences in general? (does a pre amp functio nas a battery box as well?)

I am looking to record loud rock concerts!

HI a battery box will work for loud concerts.. if you want to record more then just loud concerts. You might want the extra flexibility of a preamp.. A preamp boosts the signal so you don't have to use your recorders audio level so much thus reducing noise. This is less of a problem when recording loud shows. But a good preamp will also get you closer to 0db with out having to normalize your audio afterwords. A battery box will just reproduce the level coming from the microphones. In a loud concert in most cases that will get you pretty close to 0db but it relies on your recorders gain settings. Its impossible for me to say if a battery box will fill the bill for all of the concerts you want to record. And a preamp might be overkill for some of them. I honestly feel  that your better off starting with a battery box like most of the users here, and seeing how you like the live recording thing. Then upgrading later on to a preamp, There are many Manufactures of battery boxes around here Check out Sound professionals, Check out the yardsale section here for a used one.

Chris Church