Topic: Schoeps CMC64 ST Configuration Advice???

[ljramsey]

Hey all - I received my new Schoeps CMC64 ST this week. I am debating which configuration to use with these mics. I have set up three configurations and am looking for some feedback. I am new to the world of Schoeps. I had been running Sennheiser ME66 short guns.

ORTF 110 degrees 25cm spread:


XY 90 degrees Coincident:


XY 120 degrees Coincident:



Thank you in advance for your feedback and/or suggestions.

Peace,

Lee

[Brian Skalinder]

The only way to really know for sure what you'll like is, of course, to try 'em all - at different shows, in different environments, locations, etc..  It's all going to depend on:  venue acoustics and layout, PA system, location, etc.

Personally, I don't care for my MK4s XY.  But if I do it (typically well FOB or on-stage), I prefer a wide-ish angle, ~110º.  (BTW, the pic of XY 120º looks more like 70º to me, but maybe that's just the angle of the pic.)  My default was typically DIN (20cm, 90º).  If it's a nice sounding venue, then ORTF.  Have fun experimenting!

[timP]

dunno about the schoeps


but many +Ts for the Jerry art on the wall

[ljramsey]

dunno about the schoeps


but many +Ts for the Jerry art on the wall

Thanks man, that is "Footprints in the Sands of Time". I was fortunate enought to pick up two different Jerry Garcia signed lithographs at an art show ten years ago. I am huge fan of his paintings, needless to say I love the music!!

[Kyle]

The only way to really know for sure what you'll like is, of course, to try 'em all - at different shows, in different environments, locations, etc..  It's all going to depend on:  venue acoustics and layout, PA system, location, etc.

Personally, I don't care for my MK4s XY.  But if I do it (typically well FOB or on-stage), I prefer a wide-ish angle, ~110º.  (BTW, the pic of XY 120º looks more like 70º to me, but maybe that's just the angle of the pic.)  My default was typically DIN (20cm, 90º).  If it's a nice sounding venue, then ORTF.  Have fun experimenting!

I agree with Brian - mk4s and x/y never seemed to have much depth and spaciousness.... - just not my sound I suppose....

I usually default to DINa (17cm, 90deg) and go from there. I have had great results with ORTF up really close or in outdoor settings. I find the 90deg angle to be the most satisfying but all pa's and rooms are different, so experiment and have fun. Use the standard configs as start points (try them all) and then modify as you see fit. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' config - some things work better in some environments...

Have fun - I used to run Senn ME-80s and the step up to cards was a real eye-opener.....

Good... gooood......  Let the sound flow through you.. [/Sidious}

[DSatz]

ljramsey, if you use any setup that has a much greater stereophonic recording angle than you need in a given situation, the entire reproduced sound stage will seem to "moosh in" (that's the technical term) toward the center in playback--the recording will tend almost toward being mono. A pair of cardioids at only 90 degrees has a total stereophonic recording angle of 180 degrees (i.e. 90 degrees to either side of center). That's far more angle than you'll almost ever need. It's no wonder people complain that such recordings lack depth.

If you really are so close that the sound source occupies 180 degrees as "seen" by the microphones, then you're basically on top of the sound source! Balance-wise, it's usually better to back off. Then the angle occupied by the sound source will be less, and the microphones can be spread to a wider angle.

Your modified version of ORTF, for example (with somewhat wider spacing than the actual ORTF technique) has a stereophonic recording angle which is less than half that of the 90-degree X/Y pair. It would give you a much wider, more detailed stereo image for the same miking distance and sound source width.

X/Y with cardioids 90 degrees apart is only a last-resort way of getting a (possibly) acceptable stereo recording when you're forced to record very close in to a performance that is spread wide across a stage. It shouldn't be considered as any kind of ideal; it's actually a pretty poor choice for most purposes. The "audio geometry" of all these setups has been calculated and the results have been verified by careful listening. There's no reason for this to be a matter of guesswork or mythology today.

--best regards

[ljramsey]

I think I will begin trying out ORTF. I hope to find some local shows to record before I go to NYC for a couple of the ABB Beacon Run shows. I do not want to experiment at the Beacon. Thanks for all the input.

[ghellquist]

Just nit-picking. ORTF was defined by the French Radio, the letters are the initials in the name (L'Office de Radiodiffusion-Télévision Française).

It was defined as exactly 17cm 110 degrees, nothing more, nothing less. So nit-picking your technique is not ORTF. There are a lot of named alternatives, see this page (mostly accurate, but totally off when it comes to spaced omnis).
http://www.recordinglair.com/record/location/micplace.htm

Sorry, had to, sort of disturbs me when people call all japanese cars for Honda.

Never mind, no offense meant, just nit-picking.

Gunnar

[Nick Graham]

I use ORTF and DINa (90 degrees 17cm) almost exclusively. The 2 times I ran XY I wasn't impressed in the least.

Up close or in good sounding rooms - ORTF.

Every where else - DINa

[ljramsey]

I use ORTF and DINa (90 degrees 17cm) almost exclusively. The 2 times I ran XY I wasn't impressed in the least.

Up close or in good sounding rooms - ORTF.

Every where else - DINa

Thanks Nick. I have heard your recordings and like what I have heard.

[brianp]

Up close or in good sounding rooms - ORTF.

Every where else - DINa

ditto, but I'll add outdoors I almost always go with ORTF even if I have to record a little further back. on-stage ORTF as well.

[Nick Graham]

Up close or in good sounding rooms - ORTF.

Every where else - DINa

ditto, but I'll add outdoors I almost always go with ORTF even if I have to record a little further back. on-stage ORTF as well.

Outside I like DIN or (when I had mk21s) NOS.