Topic: Korg MR-1

[Todd R]

That'd probably basically do it, Rodney.  But the Mr-1 can take +6dbV, or about +8.3dbu.  The V3 puts out +25dbu max, so you really only need 17-18db of attenuation, if you want to go with something lower.

If you use the Rshunt of 301 as Michael suggests, and use Rseries of 1k ohm apiece for the balanced circuit, you'll get about 17.5db of attenuation.  So that should work fine, and easy to find 1k ohm resistors.

Anyway, this is a good site for building and planning attenuators:

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

[Digital Quality]

Cool Thanks Todd. I guess I should have asked about this in the cable forum. 

I was wondering if it would be easier to have a little more atten than I needed and then adjust for it on the MR-1 than to hit right on. Basically, I'd like to run high res into the MR-1 and run a 16 bit digi out of the V3 for patchers and backup. Getting them both to run full scale is the trick.

[Todd R]

Yep, it might make sense to give yourself a little wiggle room.  What I've got above is probably the bare minimum you'd want, so attenuation between 17db and 25db should do it.

If you can't easily find 2.5k ohm resistors (half of the 4.99k resistor M. Grace suggests, needed for the balanced circuit), you could go with 2k ohm resistors for Rseries.  This would provide ~23db of attenuation.

[SClassical]

I'm actually building my own attenuator cable made especially for the V3>MR-1 line recording...

This will actually give you exactly what you need (17dB of attenuation) - your meters on your V3 will be the same as your MR-1 when the gain on your MR-1 is zero.

               (tip)  10.0K   --------------
                                                    } 4.99K
               (ring) 10.0K   --------------

I find it best to keep the gain at zero for my MR-1 - done a lot of recordings and most of the cases were not to my satisfaction. Some sessions even made my recording have brickwalling others with too much noise. My best recordings were all set at zero gain - that's just my personal setting using it with the MixPre.

[Digital Quality]

Cool thanks! I guess 0db is the default when the box boots up too so that would be handy!

Edit: BTW if this were for mic attenuation I think you'd want to use a much lower value for the shunt R (in the hundres of ohms vs kohms) to keep the output R down. For this purpose tho I don't think it will matter much but it might not hurt.

Edit again: Use the lower shunt R - 300 or 500 ohm just to be safe even tho our cables will be short. Get extras and match them by hand.

[Nick's Picks]

so...why do you need attenuators?  I dont use any w/my MMP > MR1.  I just turn the input on the Korg down to -10db.

[Todd R]

so...why do you need attenuators?  I dont use any w/my MMP > MR1.  I just turn the input on the Korg down to -10db.

I've got no experience with the MR-1, but from their published specs, it can only take +6dbV on the line inputs.  This is what I posted about the need for attenuators in another thread:

For your specific case of the MR-1, Korg lists the maximum input level as +6dbV.  +6dbV is the same as about +8dbu, so the max the MR-1 is +8dbu.  The V3 puts out +10dbu when the third green LED is lit, so you'd need to run the V3 so you light up no more than the first 2 green LEDs.  If you hit the third green LED, you're overloading your MR-1, with even worse overloading if you hit the 4th green LED.  If you hit that first amber LED on the V3, you'll again (like the case of the MT) be overloading the crap out of your MR-1.

The full thread is here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,82562.0.html

So, if you happen to be running a V3 in front of your MR-1, esp if you want to run a regular pcm recorder on the digital outs of the V3, you'll probably want to run an attenuator between the V3 and MR-1.

No idea about the MMP or how hot a signal it puts out though.

[Nick's Picks]

IMO, the V3 puts out a stupid hot signal via its analogs.  hotter than the V2 is, hotter than my MMP as well.
in any case, the "line in" has a range of -15db > +15 or so, never really looked beyond that.  It defaults to 0db.  If I run it default, I can barely give my MMP any gain.  If I run it at around -10 to -13db, I can run the apogee nice and hot. and the Korg reads a close approximation to what the LEDs on the apogee displays.

[MattH]

IMO, the V3 puts out a stupid hot signal via its analogs.  hotter than the V2 is, hotter than my MMP as well.
in any case, the "line in" has a range of -15db > +15 or so, never really looked beyond that.  It defaults to 0db.  If I run it default, I can barely give my MMP any gain.  If I run it at around -10 to -13db, I can run the apogee nice and hot. and the Korg reads a close approximation to what the LEDs on the apogee displays.

sounds like the MMP is a nice phantom power box for the MR-1 if you don't have to add barely any gain without attenuating the MR-1 inputs. My guess based on other opinions I've read is that the MR-1 sounds best at 0dB. Maybe phantom power supplies are all that is needed for loud PA recording line in to the MR-1.

[Nick's Picks]

the apogee's sweeet sound when its peakin' is what I want captured.  and i've been VERY happy.
a few times, i've started rollin' w/o setting the gain, and I dont like it that way over turrning it back and adding more apogee gain.
another thing I could try (and will next time), is to leave it at 0db, and attenuate the output of the MMP.  It has a little "output" dial, where you can add a little to the signal, or remove a lot.  It still runs as hot as the LEDs signify, but the outputs are tame.  The MR1 will probably like that.

[Digital Quality]

               (tip)  10.0K   --------------
                                                    } 4.99K
               (ring) 10.0K   --------------

This is only a ratio of 4, 20 log(4) gives 12dB. I'm building this now and the ratio needs to be 7 or higher to get 17dB.

Am I doing bad math or is there another trick?

[ironbut]

I contacted Nick about sending a sample file to Audiofile Engineering to see if they could support the 1 bit format into their Wave Editor software. I've been using Wave Ed. for a while now and really love it. I plan on buying an Mr-1 so I thought I'd see if they could set it up to import the files without converting them first. I just checked and it is on their to do list. So keep and eye on;audiofile-engineering.com

[richardl]

[de-lurk]

This is the site of the "1-Bit Audio Consortium" who specified the WSD DSD format supported by the MR-1.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1-bit%2BAudio%2BConsortium%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGGL,GGGL:2006-32,GGGL:en%26sa%3DG

The PDF of the WSD spec is available on this site. It's in Japanese, but it's not too hard to understand.
http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/pdf/020917wsd.pdf

They also have sample WSD data files to download.

I'd love to see direct support for DSD file formats, but I suspect won't be all that useful until applications learn to deal with DSD data directly.

p.s. I recently bought a MR-1 and have found the information on Taperssection very useful. Thanks.

[Colin Liston]

Taped Govt Mule Friday night at the Wanee Festival

Gefell m210 > V3 > 20db attenuator > KORG MR-1 at 1bit/2.8MHz

Got it right this time!  Sounds nice.  Now, what should I do with the file(s)?  Convert to which resolution?

PM me if anyone wants a copy in 1bit/2.8MHz

[dkarDaGobert]

Now, what should I do with the file(s)?  Convert to which resolution?

Seed the 1 bit version on dime!

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