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Author Topic: akg c451 & c452 what's the diff?  (Read 4970 times)

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Offline goodcooker

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akg c451 & c452 what's the diff?
« on: March 05, 2007, 05:12:29 PM »
These 2 mics seem to be identical....
the AKG website product archive says they are identical in performance, dimension, etc.....

except the c452 is intended for "use with existing 48volt (nominal) phantom power installations" ?
is there some difference in phantom power from systems existing at that time or am I just reading too much into this?...

any insights?
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Offline musicsherlock

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Re: akg c451 & c452 what's the diff?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2007, 06:06:07 PM »
as i always understood it, the 452 bodies can be powered only with 48v of phantom power.

correcta-mundo...the 451 will accept something like 9-52v as does many other AKG mics...

Offline DSatz

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Re: akg c451 & c452 what's the diff?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 05:34:11 PM »
The problem with the C 451 microphones was that at 48 Volts, they would draw nearly 6 mA apiece. If this caused the power supply voltage to sag, that was generally OK given the amplifier's design. But some supplies would collapse altogether, which was definitely not OK.

The C 452 differs from the C 451 by just one (higher) resistor value. The results are twofold: 48-Volt powering is required, and the current is limited to 3 mA per microphone. (AKG also offered a pair of large-diaphragm models--the C 414 EB and the C 414 EB P 48--having the "same difference" between them.)

Note that 3 mA per microphone was still a bit high for the time; the prevailing DIN standard still specified 2 mA as the maximum. Then Schoeps came along with transformerless microphones that drew about 4.5 mA in their 48-Volt incarnation. Within a few years Neumann introduced transformerless microphones of their own, which drew 2 to 3 mA or even a little more at startup. The DIN standard was revised to allow 10 mA per microphone, and that's where it stands today (DIN EN 61938). The short-circuit current of a standard 48 Volt phantom power circuit is about 14 mA per input, and the standard also recommends that phantom-powered equipment be able to tolerate such a short circuit without interruption to the remaining channels, which certainly seems like a good idea to me.

Due to the way this all developed, there are many phantom power supplies (and phantom-powered preamps and mixing desks) which don't have enough current available to power some of the better modern microphones properly. Unfortunately, it's not just older preamps and mixers that have this problem, so this still needs to be checked on a model-by-model basis. I have a good time at AES conventions going from booth to booth with a pair of Schoeps phantom power testers, seeing which recorders or mixers or preamps can light their LEDs and which ones can't ...

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 06:10:56 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline goodcooker

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Re: akg c451 & c452 what's the diff?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 10:34:08 PM »
thanks....very informative......if a little overwhelming!
The reason I asked is there was a 452+ ck1 capsule on ebay (ended up going for $280) that I was considering picking up for the home studio....if it was a pair I would have done it!
now I want to get hold of one of those phantom power testers and test my mixer, firebox, Joe Meek preamps and 670.....would be real interested in the results!
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

 

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