Topic: Pops when adj levels on R-09

[pool]

Hi
I'm running tests on my new r-09.

When adjusting the input level buttons, I'm getting popping noises Left channel at each gain step + initial click when going from 0 to 1 gain. The pops are audible both when pressing the level buttons once for each gain step or keeping button down to increase automatically.
Tried both internal mics and CSB's to same effects.

Noises are not being caused externally eg from fingers.

Is this normal? Any suggestions what happening? sample attached

thanks.rgds

[tbugsett]

It's the same on my R-09.  But I didn't think much about it after reading this in the manual (p38): "Some noise may be heard when the input level is being adjusted with the input level buttons. This is not a malfunction."

Also it's not really an issue for me as I set the levels on the R-09 once before the recording and then use my preamp if I need any adjustments. Without a preamp though I can see it's an issue.

[pool]

I saw that on the manual but it seemes one should be able to adjust levels! I think its a fine print case.
Also I get it left channel only.

[pool]

PS other users i contacted confirmed they dont get the noises on their r-09.

[pgoelz]

PS other users i contacted confirmed they dont get the noises on their r-09.

My R-09 is from the first production run and it has pronounced zipper noise.... one "pop" per level step change on BOTH channels.  Not a deal breaker in situations where the level is set once and then left alone. 

HOWEVER, it is also present in AGC mode and if recording a source that causes the gain to change constantly, the resulting zipper noise is very noticeable and renders AGC mode totally un-usable. 

I reported this to Roland shortly after receiving my R-09 and they confirmed that they could hear the same thing on their R-09.  I have heard nothing further. 

I find it interesting that not everyone reports it on both channels.  I wonder if it is a function of internal offset voltages in the A/D and varies from unit to unit?

Paul

[guysonic]

PS other users i contacted confirmed they dont get the noises on their r-09.

My R-09 is from the first production run and it has pronounced zipper noise.... one "pop" per level step change on BOTH channels.  Not a deal breaker in situations where the level is set once and then left alone. 

HOWEVER, it is also present in AGC mode and if recording a source that causes the gain to change constantly, the resulting zipper noise is very noticeable and renders AGC mode totally un-usable. 

I reported this to Roland shortly after receiving my R-09 and they confirmed that they could hear the same thing on their R-09.  I have heard nothing further. 

I find it interesting that not everyone reports it on both channels.  I wonder if it is a function of internal offset voltages in the A/D and varies from unit to unit?

Paul

EXACTLY RIGHT!

IT IS DC OFFSET causing the noise.   

Pool's unit produces this noise mostly on left channel, and to look at the analysis of his posted waveform shows the left channel has greater DC offset. 

Good news for Pool is his DC offset is small, and left channel noise is -40 dB below so likely not easily heard if anything is being recorded above -30 dB level.  Waveforms have been expanded (scale amplification) so more visible

[pgoelz]

EXACTLY RIGHT!

IT IS DC OFFSET causing the noise.   

Is this perhaps something I could go in and trim out?  I doubt that I would use AGC mode very often even if it was workable.  But it would be nice to have it available even if the time constants are WAY off for any program material I might want to record.  The zipper noise totally ruined a track I recorded at a cello festival where I didn't have time to check levels and decided to use AGC mode.  The actual level was high enough to activate the gain change and at that level continuously enough that the gain was constantly changing.  The zipper noise in the recording was horrible and completely overwhelmed the recording.  Took me a moment to realize what it was. 

I've had the recorder going on a year now and had forgotten about the issue until it came up here.  I doubt that Roland would do anything about it at this late date even though I think I was the first to report it to them.  If I can dig up the Email address of the person I was corresponding with it might not hurt to ask though.....

Paul

[Dede2002]

PS other users i contacted confirmed they dont get the noises on their r-09.

Well, I do. Left channel only. They said it's not a malfunction so that was it for me.

[Brennan]

My R-09 does this IFF (if and only if) I'm using the built in mic. Reason is (as some may have figured out) the click of the button reverberates through the unit, and into the mic.

The buttons are on the left side

[M]

I never noticed this at all on my unit?  Is it just cause the music is much louder than the noise created when changing levels?

[pool]

My R-09 does this IFF (if and only if) I'm using the built in mic. Reason is (as some may have figured out) the click of the button reverberates through the unit, and into the mic.

The buttons are on the left side

No it happenes ALSO with external mics. This is not from manual noises of fingers or buttons. The pops are "digital".

[pgoelz]

I never noticed this at all on my unit?  Is it just cause the music is much louder than the noise created when changing levels?

Your unit may be one that doesn't have enough offset to cause the pops.  Try this..... in a quiet room, start with some intermediate gain setting and monitor the record output on internal mics.  You don't have to be recording.... record pause will do.  Now, press and HOLD the UP input level button and see what you hear as the level increases.  If yours is like mine, you will hear a pop for every level change step, all the way up to maximum gain.  The amplitude of the pops (I think) depends on the amount of DC offset on your particular unit. 

Paul

[M]

I never noticed this at all on my unit?  Is it just cause the music is much louder than the noise created when changing levels?

Your unit may be one that doesn't have enough offset to cause the pops.  Try this..... in a quiet room, start with some intermediate gain setting and monitor the record output on internal mics.  You don't have to be recording.... record pause will do.  Now, press and HOLD the UP input level button and see what you hear as the level increases.  If yours is like mine, you will hear a pop for every level change step, all the way up to maximum gain.  The amplitude of the pops (I think) depends on the amount of DC offset on your particular unit. 

Paul

Ok, I tried this with both the mic sens settings and I can't hear anything.  I guess I got a good ones as long as the input jacks hold up.

[Brennan]

hmm...this intrigues me, cause I've never really 'adjusted' the levels during recording while using an external mic..when using the built-in though I do get that noise from pushing the buttons..

[joekar]

This has happened to me, also....I noticed it on a recent recording.....Thought it was the dreaded loose line in jack issue...but when listening I realized it was only when I was adjusting the levels on the R-09......So now I just set the r-09 before the show and apply gain/attenuation with my pre....problem (kind of) solved...I checked the jack afterward by moving it around with my headphones plugged in and wiggling the jack around....So far, so good...

Peace,
jk