Topic: One last sanity check ... (attn: Chris Church, et. al.)

[evilchris]

All right, everyone.  It's getting to be "do or die" time and I need to bounce my thoughts off of the seasoned veterans around here.

As some of you may be aware, I'm pretty unhappy at this point with my Shure mics (MX183/185 from Sound Pros) and battery box ( SP-SPSB-10 from Sound Pros w/ level control and adj. bass roll-off), so I'm in the market for a new solution with a hard spending limit of $250US.

My requirements are pretty simple:
- I need to be able to stealth it easily.
- I need to be able to record loud rock concerts (NIN, Tool, etc.) w/out worrying about overloading the mics.

I've had a few of my most recent tapes come out distorted from high SPL (I can find and post MP3 samples if you want), so my biggest concern is to find something that sounds decent but can also handle some decent SPLs.

With all of that in mind, my current plan is to go with Chruch Audio and get his cardioid mics w/ the 9100 preamp.  He seems to be highly regarded around here and, to be honest, that sort of endorsement is good enough for me.  Are there any other options for mics + preamp/batt. box in my price range that I should consider?

I already have a 7' light stand.  I'm planning to pair these mics with some lav. windjammers from Rycote (B&H has 'em for $26 each) and I'm going to build one of these to hold everyting together.  I'm gonna mod that design slightly, but the end-goal is the same.  I'm also going to pick up a small (stroller?) umbrella, as I plan to use all of this at Bonnaroo this summer.

So my questions boil down to this:
1. Have I thought this through enough?
2. Are Chris' options a good solution for my problem?

Also ... this is important ... should I go with the 2-wire or the 3-wire option if I go with Chris?  He already does the 4.7k mod to his mics, from what I understand, but I'm still confused over the benefits of the 3-wire option (esp. in tandem w/ the 4.7k mod) and need someone to spell it out for me. 

If I go with the 3-wire option, will I have increased SPL handling?  If I go with the 2-wire option, I can use stereo extension cables that I already have to give me the cable lengths needed for some placements (esp. on mic stands).  If not, I'll need some mini-XLR extensions, correct?

Another advantage of going the 2-wire route is that I'll be able to mix-and-match my current mics and box w/ the new mics and pre-amp.  For loud shows, having the smaller batt. box (instead of the larger pre-amp) might make more sense, in terms of stealthiness.

I'll probably be able to get my hands on the 9100 preamp this weekend at WSP in Huntsville (thanks, habit!), but I'm not sure how much good it will do me (re: this decision) w/out having a pair of Church Audio cards to match it.

Also -- I eventually plan to upgrade from my MD-MT877 to a Hi-MD or flash-based recorder, but I'm not sure if that has any impact on this decision.

A full-blown "open" rig is out of the question at this point.  I simply can't afford mics, a pre, cables, an A/D, and a recorder good enough to do it all justice.  Maybe next year, but definitely not this year.  I don't tape enough to do them justice, either.  I've been doing this for six years and have only 20 or so shows under my belt.

Input, anyone?   

[M]

I would get the mics working properly then make your decision about getting rid of them.  The 3-wire st9100 and the shure mics are a good combo.  You can also have Chris build you a mini xlr->stereo mini cable with the 4.7k mod in it.  I got both because the cable is useful to me and not that much extra but you really only need either or.

I have now ran the 185's phantom, st9100 and 4.7k and they all sound fine at loud shows.  They are good mics when you can make them work right.  I dont' trust them enough to stack tape but I don't do that anyways.

Your 183's seem useless for anything remotely loud but the 185's are decent.  I would say they are on par with the at853's, just a little more special purpose.

I can send you a sample if you want of the shures working properly at a loud show.  I also ran them head to head against my at853's so if you want I can send that too.

[dorrcoq]

Chris's preamp isn't that much larger than the SP battery box I have.  Still very easy to stealth.

[evilchris]

I would get the mics working properly then make your decision about getting rid of them. 

I don't have the time or the talent, to be honest, to make this a reality. 

The 3-wire st9100 and the shure mics are a good combo.  You can also have Chris build you a mini xlr->stereo mini cable with the 4.7k mod in it.  I got both because the cable is useful to me and not that much extra but you really only need either or.

A buddy of mine is thinking about buying the Shures from me to use as lav mics for some video work he does.  If he buys them, that solves a few problems and helps put some money in my "new recorder" fund. 

I have now ran the 185's phantom, st9100 and 4.7k and they all sound fine at loud shows. 

I ran the 185s in their current state on back-to-back nights at Tool shows.  One came out very nicely, the other is frustratingly brickwalled.  My distance from the stacks was the same on both nights (FOB), but one had a much worse result than the other.  I can't handle having mics that are that unpredictable.

I can send you a sample if you want of the shures working properly at a loud show.  I also ran them head to head against my at853's so if you want I can send that too.

I'm always up for a recording sample or two. 

Thanks.

[evilchris]

Chris's preamp isn't that much larger than the SP battery box I have.  Still very easy to stealth.

Could you bust out a ruler and give me the measurements for that preamp?  The box I have is 2.1" X 1.3" X .6", according to the Sound Pros website.

Here's a pic of it next to the MD:

[mrruin]

I can only recommend the setup I have, AT U853s with the 9100 preamp and an Edirol R09. I have a 3 wire BB in between but you can use the 3 wire model of Chris's preamp instead. SPL is no problem at all with this setup for any amplified show. I taped NIN which was loud and I taped Monta which is quiet acoustic music with stunning results. I totally owe Chris for his fantastic preamp. The AT U853 have a much more well rounded bass than my AT 943 and I definetly recommend them over the latter for rock concerts.

If you want to check out how it sounds check out these links to my recent NIN (and other) shows. The feedback I have gotten has been excellent.
here
http://www.dimeadozen.org/account-cp.php

or if you dont have dime here
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1100283/580638/
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1100191/193546/

So to conclude: ATs are great stealth mics for rock shows with either a 3 wire solution OR Chris' 4.7k mod applied (even though I haven ot tested this yet). The 9100 is a great stealth preamp, a little bigger than a box of cigarettes.

[darktrain]

I am in a similar situation as you , recording mostly rock/metal shows a few times a year and through some trial and error i found some really good sennheiser driven cardioid mics from microphone madness that have an spl of 138 without a battery box, but i still use one with my d8 or hi-md, they run about 250.00 from them but i got a brand new set on ebay for less(though i have never seen a set listed since), and the first show i recorded with them turned out very good, better than i could have hoped. I tried the giant qsuid omnis before that and wasn't happy with them at all. Anyone else out there ever used the microphone madness mics?

[mrruin]

I did and I prefer the ATs. More details and punchier bass, moreover they have interchangeable caps and are smaller. I havent taped any shows with the HLSC1s in a while though and dont think I will. Perfectly happy with the ATs.

[dorrcoq]

Chris's preamp isn't that much larger than the SP battery box I have.  Still very easy to stealth.

Could you bust out a ruler and give me the measurements for that preamp?  The box I have is 2.1" X 1.3" X .6", according to the Sound Pros website.

Here's a pic of it next to the MD:

OK, well it is a bit bigger than that, but still very small and easy to stealth.  Including the knobs, it is 4" x 2 3/8" x 1"

[M]

I would get the mics working properly then make your decision about getting rid of them. 

I don't have the time or the talent, to be honest, to make this a reality. 

I have now ran the 185's phantom, st9100 and 4.7k and they all sound fine at loud shows. 

I ran the 185s in their current state on back-to-back nights at Tool shows.  One came out very nicely, the other is frustratingly brickwalled.  My distance from the stacks was the same on both nights (FOB), but one had a much worse result than the other.  I can't handle having mics that are that unpredictable.

I can send you a sample if you want of the shures working properly at a loud show.  I also ran them head to head against my at853's so if you want I can send that too.

I'm always up for a recording sample or two. 

Thanks.

All you have to do to get the mics to work properly is send them to someone that knows what there doing.    Whenever I need work performed on my gear I ask Chris Church to do it. 

I really don't think that if you had your mics modded that they would have fucked that show up.  Were you using the card caps for both shows and going line in on the md?

I dunno maybe you should get some new mics just so your comfortable that they wont ever distort.  Although I'm now pretty comfortable with my shures.

Shoot me a pm with an email and I'll get some comp samples ready for you. 

[evilchris]

I can only recommend the setup I have, AT U853s with the 9100 preamp and an Edirol R09. [...]

I'm downloading the second night right now.  Thanks!

[evilchris]

i found some really good sennheiser driven cardioid mics from microphone madness that have an spl of 138 without a battery box

138 dB?  Really?  That almost seems impossible.  I'll definitely have to look around for some info on these.  Thanks for the tip.

[evilchris]

All you have to do to get the mics to work properly is send them to someone that knows what there doing.    Whenever I need work performed on my gear I ask Chris Church to do it. 

How long did it take to get the mics back from Chris after sending them to him?  I can't afford to be without them for more than a few weeks until the end of June.

I really don't think that if you had your mics modded that they would have fucked that show up.  Were you using the card caps for both shows and going line in on the md?

Yep ... card caps, fresh 9v in the batt box. 

I dunno maybe you should get some new mics just so your comfortable that they wont ever distort.  Although I'm now pretty comfortable with my shures.

I'm to the point where I just want a pair of consistently reliable mics in very demanding situations.  I know I'm looking for a bit of "ghost" solution -- high performance at a moderate price -- but I can wish. 

Shoot me a pm with an email and I'll get some comp samples ready for you.

Done.  Thanks!