Topic: good kick drum/all purpose mic?

[toodiesel]

Hey all:

I've seen posts about kick drum mics in specific, but I was wondering if I could buy a general mic that could reasonably double as a kick drum mic.  I already have 2 SM57's - would one of these work ok?  Any suggestions?  I'm in the sub $300 price range. 

Also, any chance there's a good condenser mic for this type of application (all purpose/kick drum)?

Thanks for your time,

Damjan

[rokpunk]

For kick drum you might want to consider a Shure Beta 91. It's a boundry type condenser, and sounds awesome.

[ambo]

A 57 can work as a bassdrum mic. Sennheiser 421 would also work. Both are good for recording guitar amps, horns, drums and can sound good with louder/aggressive vocals. Shure 57 is about as close to an all purpose dynamic mic as it gets. The other well known dynamics that are used on bassdrum are the EV RE20 and AKG D112. they don't tend to be used much for other instruments, although the EV is a standard for radio broadcast voiceovers. There are also quite a few other mics marketed for bassdrum from companies such as CAD, Audix, Beyer etc..., but the ones I've mentioned are the "classics". Condensers can sound great if they're not inside the drum or too close to the front head. I like the CAD M179. It's a nice mutipattern ld condenser that sells for about $150.

[cleantone]

Well I guess that depends on how general purpose you need it to be. What other sources are you hoping to cover with this? Typically with a kick drum mic you'll get two uses. Kick drum and Bass cabinet. You could consider one of those Earthworks kick pads. They are touted to make most mics pretty suitable on kick. They basically have a set EQ inline. Probably a mic cut, little peak in the highs and maybe in the low range as well. I want one but have no experience with them. That might make an SM57 pretty decent on a kick drum. I would recommend a beta52 but it would only be much use on the kick, bass, tuba, maybe some guitar cabinet stuff (but not all situations with gtr). My ultimate suggestion though would be a Beyer M88. They are good on a kick, vocals, gtr's, horns, and more.

[toodiesel]

hey all thanks for the recommendations. 

Good to hear that the SM57 is decent for kick drum, and I'll probably go with that, as I already own two.  I failed to mention this earlier, but I am using this to record drums, but would like to use the kick drum mic for other applications such as guitar, and after reading a couple of great posts (one is here: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,9078.0.html ) on mic placement for drums, I'll buy a matched pair of C4s (Studio Projects) for overheads, and place the SM57s the snare and the bass drum

Thanks again

[Brian]

i'd have to recommend the beyer m88 or sennheiser 421 as well.  both are great fro kick drum and do well on many other applications.

57s can sound decent on some kick drums.  it really depends on the sound the drum is putting out.  i've usually had to put the 57 closer to the beater head to get some proximity effect for low end thump, but that also brings in a fair amount of "click" from the beater.  You'll have to compromise and figure out the right placement.  i've used the earthworks kick pad a few times but did not desire the results too much. although i didn't use it with a 57.

57's on a kick and snare and c4's for OH's should yield a really decent drum sound. 

[stirinthesauce]

i'd have to recommend the beyer m88 or sennheiser 421 as well.  both are great fro kick drum and do well on many other applications.

x2

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

[cleantone]

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

[Brian]

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

i'm curious as well.  some engineers have told me to put on a light wind/pop screen on a m88 when miking a kick drum with it where the drummer plays really hard.  they said the capsule can get screwed up, but i never really understood what exactly happens

[stirinthesauce]

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

i'm curious as well.  some engineers have told me to put on a light wind/pop screen on a m88 when miking a kick drum with it where the drummer plays really hard.  they said the capsule can get screwed up, but i never really understood what exactly happens

just read that a kick drum will warp, to some extent, an m88 diaphragm.  So, you won't want to use it on other instruments, once you've used it on a kick.  Hence, use it once as a kick mic, it should become your deadicated kick mic.

Believe rockpunk even mentions this in the first team beyer thread, may want to check it out.



Of course, I may be talking out of my ass, so investigate for yourself.  Just passing along what I've read.

[Brian]

hmmm....maybe what i've heard and what you said are connected?

[Church-Audio]

Hey all:

I've seen posts about kick drum mics in specific, but I was wondering if I could buy a general mic that could reasonably double as a kick drum mic.  I already have 2 SM57's - would one of these work ok?  Any suggestions?  I'm in the sub $300 price range. 

Also, any chance there's a good condenser mic for this type of application (all purpose/kick drum)?

Thanks for your time,

Damjan

I like the EV RE-20 as a very versatile microphone I have used this mic for Kick drum, Bass guitar cabinet micing, Guitar cabinet micing and Vocals.. Its a great mic that is designed to handle the SPL of a kick drum and still work well for other applications and this mic also rocks for brass  micing. This mic also works for any percussion micing you need to do. Its a design that has been around for at least 20 years and has remained Unchanged.

[toodiesel]

i'd have to recommend the beyer m88 or sennheiser 421 as well.  both are great fro kick drum and do well on many other applications.

57s can sound decent on some kick drums.  it really depends on the sound the drum is putting out.  i've usually had to put the 57 closer to the beater head to get some proximity effect for low end thump, but that also brings in a fair amount of "click" from the beater.  You'll have to compromise and figure out the right placement.  i've used the earthworks kick pad a few times but did not desire the results too much. although i didn't use it with a 57.

57's on a kick and snare and c4's for OH's should yield a really decent drum sound. 

good to hear that this setup will yield something workable!  I appreciate the other recommendations (the EV RE-20 seems like an excellent recommendation, and I likely would've got it over an AKG D112), I just don't want to spend too much more right now, as I'm getting a mixer and the 2 condensers.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the input.

[Church-Audio]

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

just remember on the m88, if you use it on kick, then it should remain your kick mic.

Curious what you meant by this?

i'm curious as well.  some engineers have told me to put on a light wind/pop screen on a m88 when miking a kick drum with it where the drummer plays really hard.  they said the capsule can get screwed up, but i never really understood what exactly happens

just read that a kick drum will warp, to some extent, an m88 diaphragm.  So, you won't want to use it on other instruments, once you've used it on a kick.  Hence, use it once as a kick mic, it should become your deadicated kick mic.

Believe rockpunk even mentions this in the first team beyer thread, may want to check it out.



Of course, I may be talking out of my ass, so investigate for yourself.  Just passing along what I've read.

The reason why its not a good idea to use a dynamic kickdrum mic for other things is,
When you subject a mic like the m-88 to high spl the mic diaphragm does distort but in some cases it can be fixed. The companies that make these microphones they put very fine indentations on the mics "surround" its just like a speaker, but with speakers they use a chemical to reinforce the surround so it does not break when the speaker is working hard.

Conversely most dynamic microphones employ a "surround" dimpling around the mics outer edge this increases the surface area and also because of the geometric shape increases the strength with out adding mass to the diaphragm. The more mass you have on a dynamic microphone diaphragm the less sensitive the microphone is to vibration and they less linear  its output will be.

So these "dimples" get pushed in sometimes resulting in a uneven movement of the mics diaphragm resulting in a slightly skewed voice coil. This can result in a decreased output and decreased acoustical sensitivity and a reduced frequency response in the low end.

Some times gently blowing on the mics diaphragm can "unpop" the problem and you can continue to use the mic. I have always put any dynamic mic that I use on a kick drum at a slight angle and never at 90 degrees to the head. I might go 85 degrees this helps with pressure wave that is created by the drums head to lesson the impact on the dynamic microphones diaphragm. This results in less distortion and a more defined kick drum sound.. But every drum is different and sometimes I have to break my rule. Just think of the dynamic mic as a very sensitive piston with very fragile piston rings that can get deformed if you subject them to too much of a direct pressure wave.

Shure SM57 is one of the toughest mics out there for SPL because of the design of there surround for the diaphragm. But this stiffness also results in poor low frequency response compared to say an EV RE-20 or 421 microphone..

[rokpunk]

Someday I will post pictures of our "drum kit mic shootout"...

We mic'ed a drumkit with about 30 mics, just to compare different mics in different applications. We isolated the drummer in our warehouse and set up a system with 2 double 18 per side (Meyer 650p's) and 2 mid/high packs per side (Meyer MSL4's). It was me and 4 of my engineers....and on the kic, it was decided by all of us that the best sounding single mic on the kick was the Beta 91. It sounded even better when we added a Beyer M88 to the mix. The Beta 91 was compared to a Beta 52, a D112, a SM57, a 441, an M88, and an Audix D something-or-another. We also all thought that the Audix i5 sounded best on the snare, and we also all concluded that the AKG 461's sounded best as highhat and overhead mics. we compared the i5 to a SM57, a 421, a 441, and a e609. the 461 was compared to a CMC6/MK4, an Audix micro, a KM184, and some shitty CAD condensor. Needless to say this was not a highly scientific test, but we all thought it was odd that we all picked the same mics as favorites. The only mics we disagreed on were the tom mics. I thought that the SM57's actually sounded best, but even though they might sound the best, I'll stick to using my little clip on Sennheisers for toms. Much easier to deal with on stage.


This test only lasted about an hour until the neighbors called the cops.
I think the kickdrum was what put them over the edge.