Topic: spaced omnis + coincident center pair (or) Blumlein/M/S + flanking omnis

[Gutbucket]

Reading this thread got me thinking about something I want to try. Especially Nick's comments:

when using flanking omnis, i like the main stereo pair to be in a coincident fashion.  Preferably M/S.

I also wonder...
wouldn't just a 3 mic mix work pretty well?  one card directly on axis.  flanking omnis or subs.

I really like spaced omni's, especially outdoors.  Later this summer I'm thinking of running a second rig as well since I've got most of the gear except a second recorder.  I'll be able to compare the results of the two rigs of course, but I also want to experiment in post with combining the sources.  I've been thinking about doing something similar to what Nick mentions above. One cool aspect of the setup I'm considering is I should be able to mount the coincident pair on the same stand as the omnis, since I'm running spaced 4060's using an adjustable TV rabbit ear antenna as a spreader bar. I can either have all the mics in a row, equidistant from the stage, or angle the rabbit ear antenna arms back to form a small 1 to 1.5 meter Decca tree with the coincident pair in front. 

spaced omnis (4060's) > recorder 1
blumlein or M/S (ADK TL's) > recorder 2

I'll have to sync the sources in post of course. I can then mix 3 or 4 of the feeds to play around with adjusting 'forwardness' and imaging. I'll run the omnis at a 1 meter spread since that has worked nicely at that venue in the past. I may try widening that somewhat since there will be a center pair but that messes with my known baseline and my 'safe' recording. I'll plan on experimenting with different coincident configs for the center pair. The potential possibilities and combinations are many, but here's a few things I'd like to try:

• Blumlein
• M/S w/cardioid center (post option to eliminate the side for card + flanking omni's)
• M/S w/omni center (option to eliminate the side for Decca tree or 3 omni's in a row)
• M/S w/hyper center (option to eliminate the side for hyper center + flanking omni's)
• M/S w/fig-8 center (option to eliminate the side for fig-8 center + flanking omni's)

I can then listen to each stereo config separately, or combine them in different ways by:

• Mixing the full range mic feeds.
• Limiting the frequency range of each pair with a crossover function in the audio editing software before combining them - omnis for the low end & coincident pair for the high end.

I think it should be fun & educational, & perhaps drive me batty attempting to do that stuff in the audio editor.  One attraction for me is that I can run my omni rig and be sure of a good recording and satisfy my need for experimentation at the same time by messing around with various configs for the other pair between sets.

Care to share any thoughts or ideas?

[edited to eliminate a bunch of empy lines]

[Shawn]

I certainly encourage experimentation in this area. Since picking up my r-4 almost a year ago I've taken every opportunity to run various 4 mic configurations and generally I've been pleased with the results. I really enjoyed running my ADK TLs in split omni. to me it was the most open and natural sound I ever got out of those mics. all of the near coincident techniques I tried with those mics always felt muddy in comparison. Nick isn't the only person I've heard say that they prefer coincident techniques when using flanking omnis. However, I have done almost exclusively near coincident techniques with flanking omnis, and as I said before I've been satisfied. I know it gets said on here pretty frequently but really it's all about experimenting and finding out what you like.

If you are interested in hearing some of the 4 mic stuff I'ce done I can point you to some stuff on archive.org.

[bhtoque]

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=505869

I've done cards DIN/omni's tons of times, but the above is blumlein/omni's and the results are awesome.

JAson

[muj]

do you pan the L and R? (depends ofcourse but what is your experience)

[bhtoque]

I have not done any panning.

Only adjusted % of each source in final mix to give it an even sound.

JAson

[Gutbucket]

Thanks Jason, I'll definitely give that a listen.  Shawn, I'd love to hear your near 4 mic recordings if you can point me to them. 

A four tracker like the R-4 is ideal this stuff, but for this 'test & experimentation phase' I'll either pick up or borrow a second 2 track machine or lug the laptop out for a day.  I'll pony up for an R-4 or equivalent if I end up wanting to do stuff like this regularly.  Maybe the next generation of the R-4 or other decent/affordable 4track machines will be available by then too.

What I'd really like is a small flash recorder (think R-09, Microtracker, etc.) that can be linked to another of the same model via the usb port or maybe even via bluetooth, to turn the second into a slave for 2 additional tracks sharing a common clock & mirroring the transport controls of the first unit.  Only requires communicating clock and control data over the link.  A user could buy a second recorder to use as a back-up or second rig and also have the option to chain the recorders together to form a modular multitrack.  Perhaps you could even link 3 or 4 machines for 6 - 8 tracks.  Of course it should work as a modular computer interface with the computer serving as master control unit too.

Hey Roland, Sony, Korg, Avid.. how 'bout it.  The hardware is mostly there already and consider that you could get many of your users to buy multiple machines!