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Author Topic: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i  (Read 14069 times)

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BobW

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2007, 01:04:44 PM »
I am crazy in that I hear a difference between the KM140s and the KM184s?
I seriously hear a difference in the low-end.
Perhaps it's just placement?
Or could it be body resonance?

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2007, 02:26:14 PM »
i could never tell the difference personally.

Offline Busman Audio

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2007, 10:43:12 PM »
I have a set of KM84i's and love em.  I did some tests at home to see what I liked better the 140s or the 84i's. The 84s are much more neutral or flat through the frequency band. They seem to sound "just exactly perfect" to me. The 140s are awesome but I liked them more just for the active setup. I think the 84s sound much better on most anything to my ears and that could be the transformer.

I really want a set of KM54s. I think those are my personal Holy Grail mic.

Just wanted to give my 2 cents since I have owned both sets of mics at the same time.  ;D


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Offline Kyle

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2007, 11:08:45 PM »
I am crazy in that I hear a difference between the KM140s and the KM184s?
I seriously hear a difference in the low-end.
Perhaps it's just placement?
Or could it be body resonance?

I hear this difference in the low end as well. When I ran 184 > V2, the bass was sloppy if I didn't use the HPF2 (50hz, 6db/octave slope). With the 140s I never use the HPF and have tight, detailed, deep bass Seems to be a bit more evenly balanced across the entire spectrum. The 184 low-end seemed to 'encroach' on the higher frequencies.

I believe the electronics in the km100 body are different than in the 184, but the capsules are the same.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2007, 11:59:46 PM »
Kyle, most people (including anyone at Neumann) don't hear any such difference, and there's no design intention nor physical reason for there to be any sonic difference between a KM 140 and a KM 184--especially anything as range-specific as a "difference in the low end."

I'm not doubting that you heard whatever you heard, but it's not anything that generally holds true for those two models. If you have a chance to recreate your experiment some time with other microphones of the same two models, I urge you to do so and let us know whether your impression is still the same, particularly if you aren't in the position of knowing which one is which until you've made up your mind as to which one has which kind of bass.

The only essential difference is that the KM 140 uses an active capsule arrangement with the FET first stage located in the (separable) capsule unit. But when you attach the "passive" capsules of the KM 18x series to their bodies (the KM 183/184/185 circuitry is all identical), the distance to the FET is about the same so even stray capacitance, etc., are just about the same in the two models.

As someone else mentioned there have been two generations of KM 184 circuitry, but their gain (and thus the sensitivity of the complete microphone), maximum SPL and frequency response are absolutely identical. The KM 140 in turn is identical to both generations of KM 184 in those same respects. The sole outward difference between the two generations of KM 184 is the equivalent noise level, which was reduced by 3 dB in about 2001, while the phantom power requirement increased correspondingly from 2.3 mA to 3.2 mA per microphone.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Kyle

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2007, 01:22:50 AM »
Thanks for all of the info :coolguy:
Always good to learn a bit. My experiences with the sloppy bottom end with the 184s may have been the product of boomy rooms. A blind recreation would be the best bet. One of these days ;D

I need to run the 140s a bit more. I ran the 184s for a 2 1/2 years; I have only run the 140s a handful of times (with borrowed ak40s). I will be doing quite a bit of comparisons when I get some capsules and another deck :)
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kskreider

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2007, 02:12:22 AM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

Don't mind me.  I am just quoting this so that I can put it at the top of my "aspire to be" list of things to do in life. 

Ovu, that is quite and Neumann arsenal, if you don't mind one saying so out loud.

Chris, I agree that the 54's are something that might signify the end of a long search.

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2007, 02:13:46 AM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

Don't mind me.  I am just quoting this so that I can put it at the top of my "aspire to be" list of things to do in life. 

Ovu, that is quite and Neumann arsenal, if you don't mind one saying so out loud.

indeed

I want some km245s
No Mics
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Recorders

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2007, 07:33:28 AM »
and I want the km86

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 09:26:20 AM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

what?  no ak50s?  ;D  i wish i had the funds to buy every cap they offered.  well done!
"The best jazz is funky, and the best funk is jazzy" -SMOOTH
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Offline 0vu

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 10:16:45 AM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

Don't mind me.  I am just quoting this so that I can put it at the top of my "aspire to be" list of things to do in life. 

Ovu, that is quite and Neumann arsenal, if you don't mind one saying so out loud.


 :P Thanks.

I guess it is - and that's just the small diaphragm Neumanns  ;)

Offline 0vu

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2007, 10:23:17 AM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

what?  no ak50s?  ;D  i wish i had the funds to buy every cap they offered.  well done!

lol

No - and no AK45s either.

I used to have three AK50s but I only used them about twice so I sold them a few years ago when I needed money for something else. Never had any AK45s as I hardly ever have a use for a LF rolloff cardioid - and when I do I have a couple of KM85s anyway.

I should probably admit that recording things is a job for me rather than a hobby - otherwise I'd never be able to justify owning as many mics as I do. It's hard enough justifying it to my wife as it is  ::)

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2007, 12:18:30 PM »
I have KM83, 84, 85, 88, and KM100/AK20, 30, 31, 40, and 43 mics/capsules and I'm pretty used to the sonic differences.

Don't mind me.  I am just quoting this so that I can put it at the top of my "aspire to be" list of things to do in life. 

Ovu, that is quite and Neumann arsenal, if you don't mind one saying so out loud.


 :P Thanks.

I guess it is - and that's just the small diaphragm Neumanns  ;)

so lets hear the whole mic list.... neumanns and everything else...
"The best jazz is funky, and the best funk is jazzy" -SMOOTH
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Neumann AK20/AK40s > LC3 > KM100 > Lunatec V3 (MS mod) > SD 722 or Microtrack 24/96  (Hi-Ho Silver Custom Interconnects)
------------------------------------------------------

Offline sygdwm

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2007, 06:36:01 PM »
anyone have pics of a low-pro km84i setup? i searched and came up fairly dry.
mics: (4)akg c460b(a60,mk46,ck1x,ck1,ck2,ck3,ck61,ck63)
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(P.S.: On a threaded discussion board like this one, there's no need to repeat someone's post when you reply to them; everyone can see all the messages in the thread.)

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Re: Neumann 140 vs Neumann 84i
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2007, 06:56:03 PM »
anyone have pics of a low-pro km84i setup? i searched and came up fairly dry.

What do you want for low-pro?

Best you can do is a KM184-like setup - two clips and the bodies in a Joe Meek/A20 style mount, I would think.

Can't remember whose post that was, but it's probably the most low-profile setup you'll achieve with the 84's.


EDIT:  Found it.   ::)   http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85879.msg1140547.html#msg1140547
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