USB DAC for 24-bit playback?

[Todd R]

With the baby on the way, I'm going to need to re-arrange my office playback system.  Guest room becomes nursery, so now the office will need to do dual duty of office and guest room.  Bottom line, I need to scale back the playback system and get rid of the rack of components.

Really, at this point I only listen to stuff from the computer -- my recordings, flac'd and mp3'd CDs, internet radio, streaming LMA, etc.  Hence, I'm only going to set up the listening for stuff coming from the pc.  Anyone have any experience with the low cost USB DACs out there?  I'm thinking about something like these:

http://www.firestone-audio.com/cgi-bin/product.asp?pdtseqnm=2

http://www.cryo-parts.com/usb_dac.html

Either something like those, or perhaps the M-Audio Audiophile USB.  I'd welcome everyone's thoughts on this.  BTW, I'm hoping to have decent sound certainly, but this isn't my main playback system, so I'm not trying to go that high-end, just want to get a good listening system, and a good system for editting my recordings if need be.

On the other end of things, I've considered getting some active monitors but I think I've decided I just can't part with my Soliloquy Sat5's.  At this point, I'm leaning towards getting a Parasound Zamp to drive the Sat5's, and I'll use foobar or whatever on the PC for volume control.  I should be able to just keep the Zamp powered on and house it down below my desk, so it won't be taking up much room.

If anyone has feedback on the Parasound Zamp or other small-sized amps I should be considering, let me know.

Thanks!

[BC]

If anyone has feedback on the Parasound Zamp or other small-sized amps I should be considering, let me know.

musical fidelity has a line of neat little compact pieces, including an integrated.

[ehren]

Hey Todd,

I use the spitfire dac from firestone and it is a giant killer IMO. The Audiophile usb, I have one as well, is a good unit for passing a digital signal but it's analog end leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think the Fubar usb dac will do 24 bit. With my setup I run computer>audiophile usb>spitfire>amp. That gives me true 24bit out and the sound quality is nothing short of stunning considering the price. As far as I know the new benchmark unit is the only straight usb dac that does 24bit, I could be wrong but I think that usb doesn't support 24bit as standard on it's own and that is what the fubar unit works off of.

All that said, I can't recomend the firestone stuff enough. If you dcide to go that route get the optional supplier as well, it makes a big difference. Also, their customer service is top notch. I had a supplier go bad and they sent me a new one, no questions asked and they didn't eve ask me to return the defective one. Come to think of it I still have the defective supplier and I'm sure someone with a little electronics skill could fix it, you can have it if you decide to go the firestone route; I'm sure you could fix it no problem.

[pjdavep]

I have no experience with this unit -
http://www.ifiaudio.com/md10.html

...just happened across it earlier this week when looking for a cheap DAC/headphone amp combo.  I think I may have found a winner with this -
http://www.ifiaudio.com/d25.html

There are a lot of reviews of both devices on the head-fi.org forums.

This site also has some cheap and interesting gear available -
http://www.audiomagus.com/

Later,
  pjdavep

[Todd R]

Thanks for everyone's input!!

Ben -- the Musical Fidelity stuff is nice!  Probably outside my price range at this point though.

Ehren -- thanks for the feedback on the Firestone stuff.  I'm still trying to get more info on USB DACs in general.  The Fubar says only 16bit on USB, but I'm not sure of the others.  That one sold by Cryo says 24bit, but that may be on the spdif and optical input, not USB.  As far as I understand it, USB1.1 is limited to 16bits, but the USB2.0 standard doesn't address it.  Not sure if that means a USB2.0 DAC can be 24 bit or not. 

If I went the same path as you with M-Audio for USB>spdif, and then a 24bit DAC -- couldn't I use an M-Audio Transit in that case and skip the Audiophile USB?  The transit seems to be 24bit and converts USB to spdif/optical.

Dave -- that ifiaudio stuff looks interesting.  Thanks also for the link to audiomagus.  They seem to sell the same USB Super Pro DAC as the cryo site I linked above, but for way less.

I still need to investigate a bit more, but I'm thinking pc(usb)> M-Audio Transit> Super Pro DAC(opti-in)> Parasound Zamp> Solilquy SAT5 could sound pretty nice, plus it won't be too much $ out-of-pocket and shouldn't take up too much space.

[Nick's Picks]

what about a SqueezeBox ?

[Todd R]

what about a SqueezeBox ?

I use a Squeezebox wireless for my other playback systems (main playback, living room playback, deck playback, and occasionally my bedroom headphone setup).  I've got several power supplies and sets of cabling, but just one unit so I just move the squeezebox around to where I'm listening.  I keep thinking I'll get at least one more squeezebox so I can cut down on the moving around business.

Still, I guess I'm thinking it is overkill for wired out from my computer.  And I'm thinking I want to use foobar for playback, so I'm not sure I want to deal with the remote and squeezebox for navigating my music.  I've never downloaded or tried the softsqueeze software though (is that the name?).  I suppose it is an option to consider though.

Latest thinking on my end:  PC Link for USB>spdif @ 24bits >> Super Pro DAC in the box >> Trends Audio TA-10.1 Class T integrated amp

The Trends TA-10.1 and Super DAC can be bought as a combo for $198.  So the whole setup will be about $250 for USB digital soundcard (to replace my aging AOpen Cobra card), 24-bit DAC, and Class T integrated amp.

[BC]

As far as I understand it, USB1.1 is limited to 16bits, but the USB2.0 standard doesn't address it.  Not sure if that means a USB2.0 DAC can be 24 bit or not. 

I don't think USB1.1 is necessarily limited to 16 bit, as I used a USBpre to record 24/48. I think 24/96 data is pushing the limits of usb1.1 though.

[timP]

i have been eyeing that trends Audio Tamp for my 1st step into the non-packed stereo(rocking a 5 yr old Sony all in 1...)


I have been looking at a way to go wireless from my laptops music collection> T-amp and the squaeezbox looks viable I guess...

I hadn't noticed that nice package deal w/ the SuperDAC... nice head up...

has me thinking of dedicating an old PC i already have to be a music slave
wish there was a wireless way to connect to the DAC from my lappy.....

[NOLAfishwater]

I just downloaded my first 24bit recording; The Superjam from Bonnaroo, and it won't open with WinAmp. Do I have to use a different program to listen to it? 

[Nick's Picks]

do you have a 24bit sound card?

[NOLAfishwater]

I don't think so. Wow. what if I burn it to DVD, will it play then. I am at work and will have to try then.

[Todd R]

Latest thinking on my end:  PC Link for USB>spdif @ 24bits >> Super Pro DAC in the box >> Trends Audio TA-10.1 Class T integrated amp

The Trends TA-10.1 and Super DAC can be bought as a combo for $198.  So the whole setup will be about $250 for USB digital soundcard (to replace my aging AOpen Cobra card), 24-bit DAC, and Class T integrated amp.

Ok, just a follow up on this:

I did end up ordering the playback system above.  I got the Trends Audio Class T amp and the Super DAC, still waiting on the PC link 24-bit USB soundcard.  At the moment using my 16-bit Aopen card.

I haven't had a chance to listen to it much or break it in, but so far sounds very good for the price.  Great detail from the Trends amp, and it has a very quiet/black background.  I'm using it in my office system connected to a pair of Soliloquy Sat5 bookshelf speakers and a cheap sub (AR PR1010 or something like that).  I've got splitters on the RCA outs of the Super DAC going to the sub and going to the Trends amp.  Probably not the best set up, but all I can do.  When I get a chance, I'll configure the Trends to be a straight amp, not an integrated with the volume knob active.

This provides amazing sound for such a tiny system.  The really small footprint is just what I need, and when I re-arrange my office, I may just bury everything behind my desk.  

Also, I should say that I am running the amp at the upper end of it's amp'ing ability.  Mainly because I have pretty inefficient speakers.  I think the Soliloquys only have a 87db efficiency.  So for a desk top system that isn't meant to really crank, this works fine.  Otherwise, for a main system, you probably want speakers with at least 93db efficiency.

The Trends T-amp is very good for what it is.  Pretty incredible sound from a amp+DAC setup that is only $200 for the pair.  I'm going to order a second setup for the living room playback system (leaving my family room with the primary playback system intact).  I'm just trying to decide if I want the DAC as well for this system, or just the T-amp.  Wall mounted "bookshelf" Monitor Audio Bronze 1 speakers, Trends T-amp, and the Squeezebox -- it'll be a nice 24-bit playback system for all my music in an overall footprint that will make the wife very, very happy.

[Todd R]

I just downloaded my first 24bit recording; The Superjam from Bonnaroo, and it won't open with WinAmp. Do I have to use a different program to listen to it? 

I've been using foobar lately, not WinAmp, but I'm pretty sure WinAmp has 24-bit codecs available, you just need to download them separately and put them in your WinAmp program folder.  Also, if it isn't playing at all, it is probably the lack of the appropriate 24 bit codec, not a problem of only having a 16bit soundcard.  The soundcard would just play a truncated 16bit version of the 24bit file.