HD P-2 -VS-R4

[rowjimmytour]

I am trying to decide which one to buy and this also depends on how much I am able to get for my back end of my rig I have now. I would like to get either one w/ a mod right away but am not sure if I can afford it right away. Which one sounds better right out of the box? and if I can afford a mod version which one gives me more bang for my buck? Also in case I have to buy from fleabay will busman still mod a HD P-2 or R4?
Peace

[OFOTD]

I am trying to decide which one to buy and this also depends on how much I am able to get for my back end of my rig I have now. I would like to get either one w/ a mod right away but am not sure if I can afford it right away. Which one sounds better right out of the box? and if I can afford a mod version which one gives me more bang for my buck? Also in case I have to buy from fleabay will busman still mod a HD P-2 or R4?
Peace

Good topic.   I believe that both boxes sound really good after mods as well as having the mods that compliment the mics that you're running.  One thing in the HDP2's favor over the R4 (not R4 Pro) is the addition of timecode.  I don't know how important that is to you but for some it it the deal maker or breaker.

Here is the where the comparison gets complicated and will I assume ultimately decide your direction.

Four channel vs. two channel.   Really as simple as that.   For roughly the same price one has four channels and one has two.  I prefer four 

Sound wise like I said above depending on the mod and if that flavor of mod compliments your mics I think both boxes are pretty close sound wise. 

The best suggestion i'd have for you is to talk to Busman as I think he also runs some ADK's. 

[rowjimmytour]

I do some matrix work w/ a few bands so 4 channel matrix would be cool but my number one thing right now is HD device -Vs-CF card and which one would be better w/ my TL's if I can't afford a mod right away.
Peace

[kirk97132]

I'm running a P2 w/ADK-A51s's and couldn't be happier.  I am gonna get the Bussman mod when time permits.  Had a good buddy who just sold his R4.  FWIW he had some occasional problems when using it in a LOUD rock environment (hard drive write errors), I've heard of others on this board with the same problem.  He even had Bussman upgrade the harddrive but it still happened.  The P2 has no moving parts so never a problem no matter how loud it is. My .02

[rowjimmytour]

I'm running a P2 w/ADK-A51s's and couldn't be happier.  I am gonna get the Bussman mod when time permits.  Had a good buddy who just sold his R4.  FWIW he had some occasional problems when using it in a LOUD rock environment (hard drive write errors), I've heard of others on this board with the same problem.  He even had Bussman upgrade the harddrive but it still happened.  The P2 has no moving parts so never a problem no matter how loud it is. My .02

Not sure if loud shows would be a problem for me but heat would for sure. Last week at HSMF the heat peaked at 106 and I had problems w/ recordings all week long some worse then others.
Peace

[easy jim]

I have not had any heat related issues with my R-4 Pro, Jim, and have used it in some very heat-intense situations.

I think if you need something that is going to sound good stock, the P2 is going to be better than the R-4/R-4 Pro.  However, a Busman Mod. R-4 Pro through Cascademedia is no more expensive than the MSRP and I'm sure the regular R-4, as well as both with the Oade Mod offerings, will also be not much (if) more than a stock unit purchased new.  Some used R-4s have been floating around the YS lately.

I knew I wanted a 4 track HD unit, and I agonized a bit over the R-4 vs. the R-4 Pro since a SD 744t was way more than I could possibly afford.  The AES/EBU digi in (w/o resample) on the R-4 Pro vs. a s/pdif in on the R-4 (which does resample), in combination with the gain/trim pots (R-4 Pro) vs. line/mic in switch + gain pot (R-4), convinced me it was worth the extra scratch to pony up for the Pro.

[rowjimmytour]

I have not had any heat related issues with my R-4 Pro, Jim, and have used it in some very heat-intense situations.

I think if you need something that is going to sound good stock, the P2 is going to be better than the R-4/R-4 Pro.  However, a Busman Mod. R-4 Pro through Cascademedia is no more expensive than the MSRP and I'm sure the regular R-4, as well as both with the Oade Mod offerings, will also be not much (if) more than a stock unit purchased new.  Some used R-4s have been floating around the YS lately.

I knew I wanted a 4 track HD unit, and I agonized a bit over the R-4 vs. the R-4 Pro since a SD 744t was way more than I could possibly afford.  The AES/EBU digi in (w/o resample) on the R-4 Pro vs. a s/pdif in on the R-4 (which does resample), in combination with the gain/trim pots (R-4 Pro) vs. line/mic in switch + gain pot (R-4), convinced me it was worth the extra scratch to pony up for the Pro.

Yeahh over on Oades site the mod is not much more but I couldn't check on Cascadmedia for the HD P2 price because it was down. Any one know whats up? frank already quoted me a nice price for a busman mod R4 for all channels. Also would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?
Peace

[OFOTD]

Yeahh over on Oades site the mod is not much more but I couldn't check on Cascadmedia for the HD P2 price because it was down. Any one know whats up? frank already quoted me a nice price for a busman mod R4 for all channels. Also would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?
Peace

I believe that both Cascade's and Doug's prices are right in the same range for the units and mods.   Busman/Cascade though seem to do mods to units not purchansed from them though which may be a positive for you.

The flavors depend on what you'll be taping though.  For me on my R4 Pro I have channels 1&2 with the basic concert mod.  Since the vast majority if not all of my recordings on those channels will be coming from the V3 I did not feel it necessary to spend more when I wouldn't get the value out of those two channels modded.  On 3&4 I have a Warm mod.  For these channels I would either use them to record from a SBD feed or to plug in a second set of mics directly like a set of omni's for example.   Obviously the mod is only to the preamp section and not the a/d.

Maybe in your case you could get a flavored mod on 1&2 as your primary and just get the basic noise floor mod on 3&4 if you don't think you'll use them much mic direct wise.  The basic mods do sound much better than stock for both the R4 and HDP2.  You can always have either modder rework your unit if your tastes change in the future.

As far as the CF vs. HD debate I have to throw my hat in the HD route.  Tons of space.  Nothing to take in and out.  While people say that CF has no moving parts to fail it sure seems like there are more reports of people having recordings screwup using CF more than those using different HD type recorders.  BUt I assume those are all a YMMV type of situation.

[easy jim]

would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?

Cheaper: probably...just ask Frank/Busman or the Oade Bros.
Worthwhile: Probably no, IMO, at least if you get a regular R-4 vs. a R-4 Pro.

With the regular R-4, if you do not mod. one pair of inputs they will really only be suitable IMO for either SBD feeds or when using an external pre.  With the R-4 Pro, that could be worthwhile if you do not mod. chan. 1/2 providing you plan to always send the R-4 Pro a digital signal via AES/EBU.  You could do that and send SBD feeds to chan. 1/2 until you have a chance to pick up a pre/A>D with an AES/EBU out (V3, MiniMe, Benchmark AD2k+, etc.)

With both the R-4 and R-4 Pro, the digital input overrides the analog inputs for chan. 1/2, though the digital in is worthless on the regular R-4 since it resamples the signal (just like the UA-5).

On mine, I have the Warm mod. on chan. 1/2  and the transparent on chan. 3/4.  That way, I can still use the T-mod chan. 3/4 for SBD feeds and have the choice open to either run a pair of my AKGs through the W-mod chan. 1/2 or to use my MiniMe and send a digi signal (+ clock).

[rowjimmytour]

would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?

Cheaper: probably...just ask Frank/Busman or the Oade Bros.
Worthwhile: Probably no, IMO, at least if you get a regular R-4 vs. a R-4 Pro.

With the regular R-4, if you do not mod. one pair of inputs they will really only be suitable IMO for either SBD feeds or when using an external pre.  With the R-4 Pro, that could be worthwhile if you do not mod. chan. 1/2 providing you plan to always send the R-4 Pro a digital signal via AES/EBU.  You could do that and send SBD feeds to chan. 1/2 until you have a chance to pick up a pre/A>D with an AES/EBU out (V3, MiniMe, Benchmark AD2k+, etc.)

With both the R-4 and R-4 Pro, the digital input overrides the analog inputs for chan. 1/2, though the digital in is worthless on the regular R-4 since it resamples the signal (just like the UA-5).

On mine, I have the Warm mod. on chan. 1/2  and the transparent on chan. 3/4.  That way, I can still use the T-mod chan. 3/4 for SBD feeds and have the choice open to either run a pair of my AKGs through the W-mod chan. 1/2 or to use my MiniMe and send a digi signal (+ clock).

Are the RCA inputs okay for a SDB feed on R4 or is it better to use channel 3/4 XLR? And if you do use RCA input for SDB is this line in?
Peace

[Rick]

would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?

Cheaper: probably...just ask Frank/Busman or the Oade Bros.
Worthwhile: Probably no, IMO, at least if you get a regular R-4 vs. a R-4 Pro.

With the regular R-4, if you do not mod. one pair of inputs they will really only be suitable IMO for either SBD feeds or when using an external pre.  With the R-4 Pro, that could be worthwhile if you do not mod. chan. 1/2 providing you plan to always send the R-4 Pro a digital signal via AES/EBU.  You could do that and send SBD feeds to chan. 1/2 until you have a chance to pick up a pre/A>D with an AES/EBU out (V3, MiniMe, Benchmark AD2k+, etc.)

With both the R-4 and R-4 Pro, the digital input overrides the analog inputs for chan. 1/2, though the digital in is worthless on the regular R-4 since it resamples the signal (just like the UA-5).

On mine, I have the Warm mod. on chan. 1/2  and the transparent on chan. 3/4.  That way, I can still use the T-mod chan. 3/4 for SBD feeds and have the choice open to either run a pair of my AKGs through the W-mod chan. 1/2 or to use my MiniMe and send a digi signal (+ clock).

Are the RCA inputs okay for a SDB feed on R4 or is it better to use channel 3/4 XLR? And if you do use RCA input for SDB is this line in?
Peace

The R4 doesn't have RCA inputs, only outputs.

Just to throw my hat in, if you're planning on doing any matrix stuff, get the R4. It's so easy to sync the two sources up that it literally doesn't take much longer to track a 4-channel recording then it would a 2-channel recording.

[OFOTD]

would it be cheaper or worth while to only do two channels?

Cheaper: probably...just ask Frank/Busman or the Oade Bros.
Worthwhile: Probably no, IMO, at least if you get a regular R-4 vs. a R-4 Pro.

With the regular R-4, if you do not mod. one pair of inputs they will really only be suitable IMO for either SBD feeds or when using an external pre.  With the R-4 Pro, that could be worthwhile if you do not mod. chan. 1/2 providing you plan to always send the R-4 Pro a digital signal via AES/EBU.  You could do that and send SBD feeds to chan. 1/2 until you have a chance to pick up a pre/A>D with an AES/EBU out (V3, MiniMe, Benchmark AD2k+, etc.)

With both the R-4 and R-4 Pro, the digital input overrides the analog inputs for chan. 1/2, though the digital in is worthless on the regular R-4 since it resamples the signal (just like the UA-5).

On mine, I have the Warm mod. on chan. 1/2  and the transparent on chan. 3/4.  That way, I can still use the T-mod chan. 3/4 for SBD feeds and have the choice open to either run a pair of my AKGs through the W-mod chan. 1/2 or to use my MiniMe and send a digi signal (+ clock).

Are the RCA inputs okay for a SDB feed on R4 or is it better to use channel 3/4 XLR? And if you do use RCA input for SDB is this line in?
Peace

On the R4 your only inputs are either XLR or 1/4" which plug into the center of the XLR terminal.   The RCA's are outputs only.

So say you have mics and a board feed.  Plug the mics either directly into 1&2 or use a preamp and then into 1&2.  Then for the board you run RCA > 1/4" or XLR adapters into 3&4.   The four tracks will be internally timecoded so matching them up in post is already done unless you have a bit of delay and then its as easy as just sliding one set over in your audio editor.

Here is a pic of a rca > 1/4" adapter.  They can be found at your local Radio Shack btw.

[rowjimmytour]

I just thought of one more thing that could make the R4 or HD P-2 a instant sale!!! I use a mac and pc right now for uploading/editing my recordings but my pc has been updated to vista(nothing but problems) and runs WL 5 w/ glitches and my mac only has audacity but is much easier to run. Does either one of these work better or worse w/ mac if ya got a good pull where all you got to do is track? What about a 4 channel matrix w/ r4? Is this possible w/ Audacity?
Peace

[OFOTD]

I just thought of one more thing that could make the R4 or HD P-2 a instant sale!!! I use a mac and pc right now for uploading/editing my recordings but my pc has been updated to vista(nothing but problems) and runs WL 5 w/ glitches and my mac only has audacity but is much easier to run. Does either one of these work better or worse w/ mac if ya got a good pull where all you got to do is track? What about a 4 channel matrix w/ r4? Is this possible w/ Audacity?
Peace

Its as easy as plugging in a USB cable to the R4.   As far as mac or pc it all depends on your software.  According to its feature list Audacity does offer four channel editing, although I use WaveLab for my four channel mixing.

[easy jim]

Are the RCA inputs okay for a SDB feed on R4 or is it better to use channel 3/4 XLR? And if you do use RCA input for SDB is this line in?
Peace

On the R4 your only inputs are either XLR or 1/4" which plug into the center of the XLR terminal.   The RCA's are outputs only.

So say you have mics and a board feed.  Plug the mics either directly into 1&2 or use a preamp and then into 1&2.  Then for the board you run RCA > 1/4" or XLR adapters into 3&4.   The four tracks will be internally timecoded so matching them up in post is already done unless you have a bit of delay and then its as easy as just sliding one set over in your audio editor.

Here is a pic of a rca > 1/4" adapter.  They can be found at your local Radio Shack btw.

And with the R-4 Pro, you only have XLR inputs and AES/EBU vs. the combo TRS/XLR and s/pdif (coax) on the regular R-4.  Adapters and/or adpater cables are easy to grab/stow in your bag for whatever you come across at unfamiliar venues.

I just thought of one more thing that could make the R4 or HD P-2 a instant sale!!! I use a mac and pc right now for uploading/editing my recordings but my pc has been updated to vista(nothing but problems) and runs WL 5 w/ glitches and my mac only has audacity but is much easier to run. Does either one of these work better or worse w/ mac if ya got a good pull where all you got to do is track? What about a 4 channel matrix w/ r4? Is this possible w/ Audacity?
Peace

The R-4/R-4 Pro is plug-and-play as an external HD on a Mac via USB 2.0...easy as pie.  

I can't say up or down with respect to using Audacity for mixing a matrix.  I know it can be done, but I personally find Audacity to be unstable and a major pain in the ass for anything but splitting tracks and quick and dirty resampling.  I figure you could get a decent start using Audacity, but will want to upgrade sooner than later to some better quality multitracking software.