Topic: How would you describe the Neumann 140 sound?

[Dutchman1101]

Just like the title states. How would you describe that Neumann 140 sound?

[philR]

nice detailed highs, and squishy lows.  yummy.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Sick FOB at big rock shows.

[Todd R]

Um Harrison, I think you're supposed to ask these kinds of questions before you buy the km140 set.

I'd agree with Phil, except the yummy part.  Yep, very nice, sweet, detailed highs, probably my favorite aspect of them.  Very nice mids, too.  The lows are just a bit on the loose side.  For me, this is what I like about the Milab VM44s compared to the 140s -- much tighter, controlled low end, but still quite full. :ducks:

[Todd R]

One more thing:  probably a reason why Phil loves the km140s -- among other things they sound fantastic for bluegrass music.  Not that that will help you much, you Panic freak.

[philR]

One more thing:  probably a reason why Phil loves the km140s -- among other things they sound fantastic for bluegrass music.  Not that that will help you much, you Panic freak.

bingo!  and i dig the loose lows.  might not be that great for panic, where you might want more detailed lows.  some of schools' notes may be lost a bit.

[BobW]

You're changing mics faster than I change boxers!     

I suspect that if you just get closer to the stacks and you'll get the sound that you want
Even with a pair of AT E/S943s 
 

BTW, KM140s kick major sonic ass, IMHO
Give them a chance, and try a little post-processing
A bass-shelf can do wonders, as can a little parametric EQ notch at a room's bass resonance.
Don't fear roll-off if it's the right tool for the job.

[Shawn]

The lows are just a bit on the loose side. 

QFT. I ran km140s for around 30 shows, and was never really satisfied with the sound because I preferred a tighter low end. they are nice mics and I'm sure they sound great if you are doing lots of on-stage stuff or acoustic stuff (bluegrass, jazz), but for rock bands in mediocre sounding venues they just weren't my cup of tea.

[BobW]

loose in bass like, say an Oktava MC-012 is ?

What mics would you say have a tighter lower register?

I've always thought that the KM140s went low, but never thought "loose", as in undefined or lacking articulation.
What pre were you running them into?  Indoors or out?

I'll stand by my sentiment that mic'ing a PA is likely to require some post-rec bass shaping.
Split omnis outdoors would be an exception to this rule for me.

[Shawn]

loose in bass like, say an Oktava MC-012 is ?

What mics would you say have a tighter lower register?

I've always thought that the KM140s went low, but never thought "loose", as in undefined or lacking articulation.
What pre were you running them into?  Indoors or out?

I'll stand by my sentiment that mic'ing a PA is likely to require some post-rec bass shaping.
Split omnis outdoors would be an exception to this rule for me.

I can't comment on the oktava sound as I'm not as familiar with it. I ran into an basic oade mod R-4. the basic mod is doug's unflavored mod (neither warm nor transparent).  My recordigns were about half and half indoors versus outdoors. FWIW, I did do a handful of on-stage recordigns for a mostly acoustic jazz group with the km140s and I really dug the sound. It was a definite improvement over the akg 460s that I used before that. I'm not sure if it was over a $1000 worth of improvement, but that is a different story. As far as mics that have a tighter low end go one brand comes to mind, schoeps.

I wouldn't disagree with you that some bass shaping of PA recordings can be useful in many situations, and I found myself utilizing the EQ more often when running the neumanns than any othe rmic I'd ran up to that point. Honestly that is a big part of what convinced me that I wasn't getting the sound I wanted.

[JasonSobel]

loose in bass like, say an Oktava MC-012 is ?

What mics would you say have a tighter lower register?

Microtech Gefell m200's (and m300's).
honestly, the gefells and neumanns have a similar sound.  as one would expect from two companies that used to be the same company and a shared history.  but the gefells have a sweeter mid-range and a tighter, more controlled, better defined bass response.  the only downside when comparing the MG m200 mics to the km140's is that the Neumann's offer and active setup, while the gefells are full-body only.  so if we're not talking about convenience or stealthing, but simply the sound, I'm surprised more people don't run the gefells.  AND then throw in the fact that the MG m21 hyper cap sounds a lot better than the km150, I'm really surprised more people don't run the gefells.

[Todd R]

I don't think the 140s are as loose on the low end as octavas, though I don't have much experience with the octavas.  The 140s to me really are just a little loose in the lows, not really pronounced, just not what I'd describe as taut.  As to mics with a tighter low-end, as I said above, the Milab VM44's.  Having run both, I find the Milabs to be similar in sound to neumanns, but with a tauter low end and more detailed highs.  The more detail in the highs is sometimes great, but OTOH can sometimes be too much and end up sound too bright depending on what you're recording.

Jason -- I think the Gefells suffer wrt taper sales by not having active cables/caps.  For right or wrong, it doesn't seem tapers start spending for the really expensive mics unless they are either multi-pattern LDs or are active cable SDs like km140s, schoeps cmc6/4x, DPA 4022, etc.  I know personally it stopped me.  By the time I found out about the great sound of Gefells, I had moved on to active capsule systems.

[JasonSobel]

Jason -- I think the Gefells suffer wrt taper sales by not having active cables/caps.  For right or wrong, it doesn't seem tapers start spending for the really expensive mics unless they are either multi-pattern LDs or are active cable SDs like km140s, schoeps cmc6/4x, DPA 4022, etc.  I know personally it stopped me.  By the time I found out about the great sound of Gefells, I had moved on to active capsule systems.

Todd -
you're probably right about that.  in my case, while I've certainly considered getting a low-profile setup.  but for the few times a year that I really need it, I have 3 or 4 people I know in Boston that I can borrow an active setup from, so I'm lucky in that regard.

[BobW]

Thanks, all, for the input.
When you say Schoeps and DPA, I know exactly what you mean.
What about Earthworks? I'll bet they'll take you into that same direction.

The Oktavas have the rep of being "loose" at the bottom.
They were reportedly the Western movie sound stage mic of choice for gunshots and cannon blasts.
When you listen to them, the low impulse sounds seem multiplied, for lack of a better word.
I'd probably not mic a bowed bass with them.

[Shawn]

What about Earthworks? I'll bet they'll take you into that same direction.

Yeah I didn't think of it before, but now that you mention it the earthworks have a super tight low end. So much so that I think a lot of people confuse them with being light in the lowend. of course this is just my opinion based on what my ears hear. 


edit to say: it could easily be the other way around... my ear is confusing the light low end of earthworks with a tight low end.