Topic: Levels on the 722/744 question

[Dutchman1101]

So I'm pretty sure I'm moving to a 722 and wanted to know what you guys do to get your levels close to 0db as possible. I noticed that the last 5 segments go from 12 to 0db whitch means that it goes 12, 9, 6, 3 & 0 I assume Do you let the 0db LED light up every once in a while?

How do you guys set them? I can see this is the one chink in the 722's armor for me.

Harrison

[gratefulphish]

These decks do NOT clip gracefully at all, which is why you find everyone pretty much running them around -6db peaks.  Some run even lower, but I shoot for -6 myself, and occasionally it will hit the -3 light.  I set my clip indicator lights at -2db, so if I see them flashing, I back off my levels immediately.

[terrapinj]

These decks do NOT clip gracefully at all, which is why you find everyone pretty much running them around -6db peaks.  Some run even lower, but I shoot for -6 myself, and occasionally it will hit the -3 light.  I set my clip indicator lights at -2db, so if I see them flashing, I back off my levels immediately.

what firmware are you running? ive got 2.something and have clipped without audible artifacts many times. i believe it was mainly older firmware that had the gnarly artifacts

i run mine to peak around -3, basically so the 2nd to last set of Red LEDs hits on the peaks maybe the last reds hitting once during the show, but i try to avoid that. generally i trigger the peak lights on the left column every so often, never really had an issue with the meters

[macdaddy]

i thought that was higher than i wanted...

i thought we wanted peaks around -10, with absolute peaks around -6

[macdaddy]

i thought that was higher than i wanted...

i thought we wanted peaks around -10, with absolute peaks around -6

yep
(assuming that we are talking 24bit here)

we are (talking 24 bit), m0k3. many thanks. and i am using one for the first time tomorrow (a loaner)

[terrapinj]

i thought that was higher than i wanted...

i thought we wanted peaks around -10, with absolute peaks around -6

 

that thinking is basically only to avoid clipping, but there is no reason that you need to or should run levels significantly lower for 24bit recordings

i thought that was higher than i wanted...

i thought we wanted peaks around -10, with absolute peaks around -6

yep
(assuming that we are talking 24bit here)

can you elaborate moke?

[Shawn]

that thinking is basically only to avoid clipping, but there is no reason that you need to or should run levels significantly lower for 24bit recordings

I thought it was the other way around?  I thought there was basically no reason to run hotter levels than that at 24 bit.

[terrapinj]

These decks do NOT clip gracefully at all

Absolutely incorrect.   Otherwise I'd be howling about it as a serious bug.

The 1.46 release truncates the clipped waveform as expected and without issue. Some later versions had problems with clipping. Folks say the newer versions don't have clip issues but I'm stickin with what has worked well until I have a good reason to upgrade.

As to peaks... Many of us apparently feel the recordings generally sound better when peaked -12 to -6 vs. closer to 0. It would make an interesting comp.

is this for the 722 specifically? running line-in or phantom or does it matter?

[gratefulphish]

It doesn't matter whether it is line or mic in, it's the level.  I agree that they clip better than they used to, but I would prefer to have no clipping at all.  I so want my Tascam meters back, with the max digital numeric readout.  But, as I said, I usually run peaks that occasionally hit -3db, and set my clip indicators to -2db, because I would rather back off a little at that point.

[F.O.Bean]

I have my clip LED's set to -3db myself. I usually peak at the next set of LED's after the -12db lights, and I usually have to add about 5-6db gain in post MAX works for me and sounds great!

[jmerin]

I have my clip LED's set to -3db myself. I usually peak at the next set of LED's after the -12db lights, and I usually have to add about 5-6db gain in post MAX works for me and sounds great!

that is what i am doing now.  run the 722 lower and boast in post.

[hoyt]

I was searching around for a thread on this...  I just upgraded my firmware recently and have been having a hell of a time with the levels since then.  Last night I ran what I thought was really low - after having this recorder for almost two years - and once or twice during the show got surprised by a 0 peak. 

I changed my peak light because the last 3 shows I've taped have been like this.  I used to keep it at -1, but I found I have to trick myself now, so I changed it to -3 to give me a feeling of more headroom at the top.

I say we all keep on SD to rework some of this: http://www.sounddevicessupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=515

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

If you are going to work on SD about metering issues, demand a margin display like the DAP1 had. 

That is still the single most useful monitoring tool I've ever used and you know what happened while you were away in the can.

[hoyt]

you don't need to run anywhere near that hot.

That's the thing, I didn't mean to be.  My average levels were hovering around -12 to -9.  I thought I was well in the clear.

If you are going to work on SD about metering issues, demand a margin display like the DAP1 had. 

That is still the single most useful monitoring tool I've ever used and you know what happened while you were away in the can.

Exactly!  That's the wording in that SD forum thread (on screen margin indicator).

[Stagger]

I was searching around for a thread on this...  I just upgraded my firmware recently and have been having a hell of a time with the levels since then.  Last night I ran what I thought was really low - after having this recorder for almost two years - and once or twice during the show got surprised by a 0 peak. 

I changed my peak light because the last 3 shows I've taped have been like this.  I used to keep it at -1, but I found I have to trick myself now, so I changed it to -3 to give me a feeling of more headroom at the top.

I say we all keep on SD to rework some of this: http://www.sounddevicessupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=515

you don't need to run anywhere near that hot.

Indeed. Further up thread someone asked for an explanation of why you should set you levels lower. I know that this has been discussed at length elsewhere but it bears repeating in this thread. The simple reason that you do not have to run your levels hot (peaking at near -1 or 0dB) on 24bit is that the format already has a usable S/N ratio (dynamic range) much higher than most playback systems can reveal to you any way. Whereas the 16 bit format has a S/N of 96dB, 24bit has a S/N of 144dB. For 24bit, this works out to 6dB/bit. So, if you are peaking at -6 to -12dB, you are still producing a recording that is far more dynamic than a 16bit recording and exceeds the abilities of many playback systems. This means that you can leave lots of headroom, normalize while post processing and have no real noticable effects on dynamic range.